Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!spdcc!tauxersvilli!alphalpha!nazgul
From: nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: Xterm Keymaps w/ the PSK [Actually Apollo status and DM simulator]
Message-ID: <1991Mar31.041446.10671@alphalpha.com>
Date: 31 Mar 91 04:14:46 GMT
References: <9103291553.AA09621@richter.mit.edu>
Organization: asi
Lines: 56

In article <9103291553.AA09621@richter.mit.edu> krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) writes:
>inovation on the same box. I'll give you a hint. The people who did
>the R3 server mostly don't work for HP/Apollo anymore. Right, Kee? ;-)

There are not many left.  Another left a few weeks ago after GTD (Graphics
and Terminals Division?) decided that they didn't believe in parallel tracks
for engineers and managers and demoted all the Consulting Engineers. 
Latest news from the former PE is that he was falling off of bulls in Mexico.

I believe the takeover is almost complete.  Most all the Apollo
components are now in other divisions, leaving very little left of
the Apollo division itself except the management.  I wouldn't be
suprised to hear of changes in the management sometime soon.

--

As a total aside.  Some people have complained about the lack of
a DM editor, transcript pads, and DM editing.  I think it would take
about 4 man months (say 2 people for 2 months) to do this using
existing tools.  I would take the Epoch multi-window version of
GNU Emacs and build a DM emulation mode that recognized the standard
key definitions.  It even has a separate "Command Window" like the DM.
If you were really feeling adventurous you could try making an elisp
DM-command interpreter, but I don't think that would be completely
necessary.  Then I would take Mwm and add some additional functions and
fix the Pop and NextWindow functions to have sensible semantics.
Finally I'd take the Korn Shell (this is the *only* shell worth using
in a xterm) and add DM editing commands.  The Korn shell has two builtin
editing modes (vi and emacs) that provide a lot of the functionality
that you get in pads - including searching for previous commands.
All that's necessary here is to add an additional (hard-coded, but that's
better than nothing) emulation mode to get DM style editing and support
for the gray keys.

Sure you could enhance xterm, create a new editor and all that junk.
But what I listed would give you 85% of the functionality, and would
furthermore be (for the most part) portable to other systems (the
Mwm changes would of course, be fed back to OSF).  This would be
well worth doing and a fitting transplant of Apollo's experience into
the X windowing world.  I've been meaning to draw up a more formal
description of what would be required and post it (and send a copy
to Rose and crew) but this is really all I have time to do now.

The main drawback to this proposal is that the only group with the
charter to do this kind of work is the UI group in Corvallis, and
they of course have no incentive.  I think it would take a skunkworks
at Apollo to get it done properly.  With a little work it could even
make SR10.4.
-- 
Alfalfa Software, Inc.          |       Poste:  The EMail for Unix
nazgul@alfalfa.com              |       Send Anything... Anywhere
617/646-7703 (voice/fax)        |       info@alfalfa.com

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.