Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!quintro!reb
From: reb@quintro.uucp (Roger E. Benz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: Xterm Keymaps w/ the PSK [Actually Apollo status and DM simulator]
Message-ID: <1991Apr1.211656.21579@quintro.uucp>
Date: 1 Apr 91 21:16:56 GMT
References: <9103291553.AA09621@richter.mit.edu> <1991Mar31.041446.10671@alphalpha.com>
Organization: none
Lines: 69

In article <1991Mar31.041446.10671@alphalpha.com> nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) writes:
>In article <9103291553.AA09621@richter.mit.edu> krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) writes:
>>inovation on the same box. I'll give you a hint. The people who did
>>the R3 server mostly don't work for HP/Apollo anymore. Right, Kee? ;-)
>
>There are not many left.  Another left a few weeks ago after GTD (Graphics
>and Terminals Division?) decided that they didn't believe in parallel tracks
>for engineers and managers and demoted all the Consulting Engineers. 
>Latest news from the former PE is that he was falling off of bulls in Mexico.
>
>I believe the takeover is almost complete.  Most all the Apollo
>components are now in other divisions, leaving very little left of
>the Apollo division itself except the management.  I wouldn't be
>suprised to hear of changes in the management sometime soon.
>
>--
>
>As a total aside.  Some people have complained about the lack of
>a DM editor, transcript pads, and DM editing.  I think it would take
>about 4 man months (say 2 people for 2 months) to do this using
>existing tools.  I would take the Epoch multi-window version of
>GNU Emacs and build a DM emulation mode that recognized the standard
>key definitions.  It even has a separate "Command Window" like the DM.
>If you were really feeling adventurous you could try making an elisp
>DM-command interpreter, but I don't think that would be completely
>necessary.  Then I would take Mwm and add some additional functions and
>fix the Pop and NextWindow functions to have sensible semantics.
>Finally I'd take the Korn Shell (this is the *only* shell worth using
>in a xterm) and add DM editing commands.  The Korn shell has two builtin
>editing modes (vi and emacs) that provide a lot of the functionality
>that you get in pads - including searching for previous commands.
>All that's necessary here is to add an additional (hard-coded, but that's
>better than nothing) emulation mode to get DM style editing and support
>for the gray keys.
>
>Sure you could enhance xterm, create a new editor and all that junk.
>But what I listed would give you 85% of the functionality, and would
>furthermore be (for the most part) portable to other systems (the
>Mwm changes would of course, be fed back to OSF).  This would be
>well worth doing and a fitting transplant of Apollo's experience into
>the X windowing world.  I've been meaning to draw up a more formal
>description of what would be required and post it (and send a copy
>to Rose and crew) but this is really all I have time to do now.
>
>The main drawback to this proposal is that the only group with the
>charter to do this kind of work is the UI group in Corvallis, and
>they of course have no incentive.  I think it would take a skunkworks
>at Apollo to get it done properly.  With a little work it could even
>make SR10.4.
>-- 
>Alfalfa Software, Inc.          |       Poste:  The EMail for Unix
>nazgul@alfalfa.com              |       Send Anything... Anywhere
>617/646-7703 (voice/fax)        |       info@alfalfa.com
>
>I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
>responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
>everyone else's.

I like this idea.  It would give back some of the features that I miss
from DM (I'm a X user now) but still allow me to use X.  I sure hope
that HP/Apollo will see this and act.  This could make a lot of apollo
customers happier without being non-standard (its still X, mwm and korn
shell).

-- 
Roger E. Benz              Glenayre/Quintron
Phone = (217) 223-3211     One Quintron Way
			   Quincy, IL
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