Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!ists!yunexus!philip From: philip@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: IIgs ROM revisions (was: Support Apple IIs) Message-ID: <22190@yunexus.YorkU.CA> Date: 1 Apr 91 10:28:19 GMT References: <8259@crash.cts.com> <13917@darkstar.ucsc.edu> <22184@yunexus.YorkU.CA> Sender: news@yunexus.YorkU.CA Organization: York University, Toronto, Ont. Lines: 86 In article declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: [question regarding the difference between a micro and a workstation] >I'm quite aware that workstation prices are dropping, and that PC >prices are far from competitive in the MIPS/$ market. However, I >hesitate to draw an arbitrary line separating the two; it's just not >possible. You've missed my whole point. It is the cost of maintaining a workstation both from the hardware maintenance and s/w purchasing point of view. Try pricing out a maintenance contract on a Sparc or even a NeXT. >In ease-of-use? A NeXT is worlds ahead when compared to any MS-DOS machine. >(though not as far ahead of one running Windows). Well the NeXT is very nice, so I have to agree with you there. As far as ease of use goes, an MS-DOS machine doesn't require a PhD to operate. I mainly use a NeXT and a GS. But I'm involved in PC's and have a couple of Mac's. The ease of use thing is overrated in my view. >In speed? A 50 MHz 486 running Windows will be faster - in MIPS - >than a 25 MHz 68040 NeXT or a SPARCstation 1. So? We were talking price of ownership. MIPS isn't the whole story anyway. >In software costs? Perhaps. But there's a lot of good, free, UNIX >stuff out there if you care to look: EE CAD software, for instance. >Berkeley alone has SPICE and MAGIC. I haven't got the time to be hacking away at unsupported software. That's one reason Unix has had such a hard time gaining acceptance-lack of good supported software. That's quickly changing though the prices are very high. >In peripheral costs? SCSI is SCSI. Laser printers are laser >printers. Be reasonable. There's more to peripherals than laser printers and hard drives. Try getting a reasonable NTSC compatible colour cube. Or even an inexpensive colour printer for the NeXT. Or a digitizer, a Midi program, a sheet music program, games,etc...Or a CD-ROM. By PC, I mean the Intel family. >Again, it's just not possible to arbitrarily label computers as >"workstations" or "PCs". They can be both. The NeXT is trying to be. If I could find some software under $500, I might agree( and I'm not counting the free stuff). The whole point of the Intel world revolves around standards( good or bad). They have the numbers and hence the lower prices for virtually everything. >> Prices of PC's are going way down. The numbers are unbelievable. They >> do have the momentum. People should think very carefully about buying >> into the workstation world. > >Prices of PCs are going way down? Sorry, but you're wrong. This is >the price for the IIfx *after* Apple just lowered it: > >Macintosh IIfx: 80 MB HD, 4 MB RAM, 21" Monitor $5644 >NeXTstation: 105 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, 17" Monitor $3100 I was referring to the Intel micros. You can't look at the Mac. The standard micro is an Intel one, and you can get a fully loaded 386 for around $2000( colour). The 105 NeXTstation is not usable. In any case, would you please quote some maintenance figures. These things break you know. >Those are common academic prices for the two systems. Needless to >say, the NeXT is much faster. Prices for SPARCstations are similar. Again you miss the point. Need I repeat myself. Workstations cost more to own. It wouldn't matter if they were free. >This thread, too, is no longer appropriate for comp.sys.apple2. That's not clear. The GS is a good personal computer. People thinking of jumping into the workstation or higher end MacII lines should consider the total cost of ownership. My GS costs very little to maintain. The Mac's and the NeXT will no doubt force me to eat crumbs. >-Declan Philip McDunnough NeXT/GS Mail-> philip@utstat.utoronto.ca