Xref: utzoo comp.sys.hp:8198 comp.arch:21734 comp.benchmarks:496 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mash From: mash@mips.com (John Mashey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.arch,comp.benchmarks Subject: Re: More Snake bytes. Message-ID: <1656@spim.mips.COM> Date: 30 Mar 91 23:49:02 GMT References: <2004@kuling.UUCP> Sender: news@mips.COM Followup-To: comp.sys.hp Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 78 Nntp-Posting-Host: winchester.mips.com In article <2004@kuling.UUCP> bt@irfu.se (Bo Thide') writes: >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > gcc espr. li eqntott spice doduc nasa7 matrix fpppp tomcatv >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >HP9000/730 46.5 55.2 50.3 52.6 60.9 64.0 73.7 273.3 107.0 67.4 >HP9000/720 35.2 42.5 36.1 40.6 46.9 48.6 58.0 210.0 81.4 52.9 >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note that the above is highly important information, if you compare mips-ratings with the SPECint subset (the first 4), and the overall behavior patterns, including the effect on matrix300. (This is quite legal, by the way.) However, SPEC has ALWAYS insisted that you see all 10 numbers, and this is one more reminder of the reason, because you can be completely misled about the performance pattern of the machine if all you see is a SPECmark. [Somebody from HP earlier claimed that the SPECmark understated the performance on real programs, not toys .... B.S. As a generic statement, that was simply nonsense, and a misstatement of what a SPECmark (alone) means, and doesn't mean.... >Here's another comparison table: PLEASE: do we have to keep seeing cost/MIPS, where everybody computes mips differently. I'll express a little irritation at this: people MIGHT have computed Price/SPECmark and Price/SPECint, where the latter is an intelligent approximation to Price/VAX-mips-integer. Of course, if I had a machine whose SPECfp is substantially higher than its SPECint, and I were a marketeer: a) I'd quote SPECmarks to get the effect from the FP b) I'd quote mips-ratings (based on dhrystone) to get a good-looking price/mips. c) I'd avoid quoting a price/SPEcint, although that is a hugely more predictive number, and whose data HAD to be available to compute the overall SPECmark.... even if the value is quite good, (which it is) because b) is likely to be better.... d) To see the kinds of distortions introduced, let's observe that the DS5000 is 20-25% FASTER on SPECint than the IBM 320, but you'd never guess that from this table. (The DS5000 and IBM 320 should have roughly equal $/SPECint, not DS5000 costing 1.3X+ more). e) In general, it is much easier to compare performacne than price, because different vendors use different pricings for the the various pieces you may end up needing. AS a buyer, you should always compare prices of configurations you're likely to buy and use. Some vendors have very low entry prices, but other things cost more. (I don't know whether this is true or not with the HPs; I haven't seen a price list yet with enough numbers to know. Maybe someone else has.) >==================================================================== > The HP 720: How It Stacks Up > >COMPANY/PRODUCT PRICE MIPS SPEC Price Per Price Per > marks MIPS SPECmark > >Hewlett-Packard/ $12,000 57 55.5 $211 $216 >HP 9000 Model 720 > >IBM/ $9,725 29.5 24.6 $330 $395 >RISC System/6000 >Model 320 > >Digital Equipment/ $12,500 27.3 19.9 $458 $628 >DECstation 5000 >Model 200 MX > >Sun Microsystems/ $15,000 28.5 21 $526 $714 >SPARCstation 2 Summary: Snakes look like a good implementation of a good architecture; the FP got a good boost, mostly from the new compilers avail in June; the integer performance remains closely on the line of well-implemented single-issue, 1-level cache RISCs, i.e., SPECint = .75-.80X MHz. But please, let's terminate this $/dhrystone-mips trash.... -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems MS 1/05, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086