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From: schoi@teri.bio.UCI.EDU (Sam Lord Byron Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: SOCIETY vs the individual
Message-ID: <9103311721.aa13231@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: 3 Apr 91 00:39:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In response to rutabaga!jls@igor.rational.com
jdravk@speech2.cs.cmu.edu (Jeanette Dravk) writes:

>Why didn't you instead question the social institutions which train
>men and women to act in certain ways and thus makes victims of
>them all?
>Attempting to place blame and chastisement upon individuals has been
>proven to only make things worse and ignores the greater issue....
>after all, it's ludicrous to imagine that EVERY SINGLE man wants to
>oppress women just as it's ludicrous to imagine that EVERY SINGLE
>woman has an "innate" inability to be aggressive.  Instead, of trying
>to find models that allow us to blame everyone, there should instead
>be more interrogation of the whole underlying model i.e. what is
>producing all of these terrible men and women?  The parents?  No ...
>the other "parent" the surrogate parent that we all have to live with,
>society and the institutionalized ways it attempts to "socialize"
>everyone.

	I really have problems with this kind of attitude which I call
the "weak ego" argument.  The basic thesis is that individuals only
act according to the rules instilled in them by the conforming
pressures of SOCIETY.  It vindicates everyone from responsiblity for
their actions by arguing that they are nothing but automatons
programed by this huge oppressive machine called SOCIETY.  So what the
hell is this thing you call SOCIETY?  If it is true that SOCIETY is
the problem, how do we go about changing anything.  Is there any way
at all to change SOCIETY?  But wait!  If we only act in accordance to
what SOCIETY dicatates, how is it at all possible for individuals even
to question SOCIETY?  Does SOCIETY tell us that SOCIETY is a hateful
oppressive institution?

Here's the internal contradiction in this view.  You say that people
can't help acting in certain ways or putting themselves in certain
situations because the programing that they receive from the
omnipotent society forces them to.  Then how is it that some people do
not act in this way?  Surely you don't believe that every individual
acts in the precisely the same way according to his/her programming!

Well, what could be the reasons for this?

1) The programming fails.  Because of some sort of defect in some
individuals, they cannot remember their programming, or react to it in
a strange way.

2) There is not one, but several societies.  (a bit
post-structuralistic, eh) Although their physical boundaries are
invisible, perhaps this large SOCIETY in which we live is actually
composed of many different societies, each of which program the
individuals under their power a little differently.

3) Free will exists!  Although individuals receive the same kind of
messages from SOCIETY, they have the choice whether or not to
incorporate those beliefs and behaviors into their own.

	I don't happen to believe that any of these possibilities are
totally implausible.  And #2 and #3 reshift the emphesis and at least
part of the responsibility back the the individual.

>Do you really think women CHOOSE to be oppressed?

	Well, I wouldn't say that, since the way I see it, to be
oppressed, you must be able to locate an oppressor.  To choose to be
oppressed in this case would be a silly notion.  However, the way you
seem to want to define the mechanics of oppression, I might not be so
sure.  Afterall, with your model, men are oppressed too since it
defines how we too must act.  So if I'm an asshole, it's not my fault,
SOCIETY made me do it.

	Let's not use the word "oppressed" for the reason I explained
above.  Let's ask the question, "Do you think SOME women choose to act
according to the dictates of their particular social discourse?"  All
of the sudden this possibility doesn't seem so silly.  If you don't
think that you have a choice to question what you call SOCIETY, how is
it that you yourself are able to come out and question it?  How is it
that you alone are immune to the pressures of this SOCIETY?

	I always say "You can't hurt my feeling unless I let you" (I
stole it from someone).  Isn't this a similar example?  I don't deny
the pressures to conform, but pressure alone cannot motivate an
individual to act.

Sam Choi