Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: MAS139@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: at the last moment Message-ID: Date: 1 Apr 91 06:48:11 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Alphabetical Lines: 71 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) says: > >Why not go for the gusto and then repent at the last minute, (right?) >Well, it *might* work, but if you're going to try this approach, be sure >and die a slow death, (crucifixion is ideal), so that you'll have time >to repent. Death by explosion for instance would blow your plans all to >H*** ;-). This has been the only reason I've received for not putting off salvation. I've read several passes in the Christian bible detail- after life experiences. So it seems that you must accept Christ while the flesh is still alive which I find inconsistant with the "the body is merely a home for the soul" sense emanating from Christianity. It also quantifies decisions made by our "eternal spirits" to be made in the mortal sense of time that it requires for the brain to cease functioning. >If you were the sort of person who made plans like this though I kind of >doubt that your last moment conversion would be sincere. Yes but that would be between God and myself am I right? We have no proof that the robber was sincere. >Your complaint is not new, (it even predates the robber on the cross). >Check out the older son in "The Prodigal Son". Check out the workers in >the vineyard who complained about the latecomers getting the same wage. >"It just isn't fair!" we all cry! No, says God, you've got it wrong. >None of you deserve Heaven, so don't be surprised if the "undeserving" >get in with the "more deserving". This has nothing to do with the last moment situation. Reread what you have written. If this were the same situation then all the previously saved people would be complaining about the robber getting saved at the last moment, which I believe is used to represent something beautiful in the Christian faith. >We don't earn our way into God's love through good works. Our good >works are a response to God's love for us. (Got it?) ;-) But you can do good works and still not believe in God. Or are you saying everything done by cultures never exposed to Christianity was not good? Matt [John Emery just made a response of a slightly different nature, but I agree that the responses so far have been a bit disappointing. There's a view of Christianity that it's a really unpleasant set of rules that makes your life miserable, and is justifiable only because otherwise God is going to send you to hell and torture you forever. That's certainly not the way I feel about it. I think basing my life on the love of God and my neighbor is a rewarding way to live in the here and now. There are a number of good reasons for Christians to talk about eternity. I say this because I would not want to be misunderstood as saying that we should abandon our confidence in eternal life, or the understanding of God as a righteous judge. But I don't think threats of hellfire are a good way to approach non-Christians. (I also share David Buxton's questions about whether eternal torture is consistent with the Bible in any case.) On the other things you talk about, I should point out that not all Christians believe that the body is merely a home for the soul. We do all (I think) believe that the true destiny of mankind is life with God in eternity. But that does not necessarily imply a body/soul split of the sort you mention. Because Christians believe in the resurrection of the body, it's possible (although unusual) for a Christian to have a unitary view of human nature. That is, to view the "soul" as a way of talking about consciousness and life, but not as a separate entity. --clh]