Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu (Joy Haftel) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sexism in the church?? Message-ID: Date: 2 Apr 91 08:23:40 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Sloppy, little to none Lines: 46 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." I Timothy 2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." Now my personal interpretation of these passages is that the curse of Eve is sexism. Adam is also given a curse in Genesis, but Eve's is to be subject to her husband. It also gives her the psychological makeup where her desires become subject to her husband's. I will admit that in a marriage one partner has to give in to the other sometimes to make it work, so this makes sense in some contexts. However, I have seen women strive to validate themselves as lovable or worthwhile creatures through being loved by a man in a romantic relationship--I even used to do it myself. I don't know how valid to connect this phenomenon I've observed to the phrase "her desire shall be to [in the NIV "for"] her her husband," but I think there may be. And I find that attitude harmful to women, psychologically, breeding many unnecessary insecurities. I find the passage in Timothy offensive. It seems as Paul is taking his interpretation of the Genesis story (which doesn't say whether Adam was deceived or not), and using it to promote a policy which will keep the men of the church from being upset. Recently there was a controversy in my parents' church, which resulted in a decision that, in light of I Tim. women are not allowed to teach Sunday School to adult males unless it it is "team teaching" where the wife shows deference to her husband throughout. Women are not allowed to lead a Bible study containing adult men, where they are teaching interpretation of the scripture. The thought of actually ordaining women would probably give that con- gregation a community coronary. In prayer and examining my feeling for what is right, I really could find no *belief* in me that women should not teach. As a Christian, what was I to think? Is the Bible wrong? Am I wrong? The two just don't seem to go together. I have thought about this issue for over a year, and I still can't reconcile them. Any thoughts or comments would be welcome. Joy Haftel "And traveller's joy beguiles in autumn JKH107@PSUVM Hearts that have lost their own." --A.E. Housman