Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: pictel!harling@uunet.uu.net (Dan Harling) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Gay Ordination in the Presbyterian Church Message-ID: Date: 3 Apr 91 08:48:56 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: PictureTel Corporation Lines: 95 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Tom Blake) writes: > I happen to be fond of Bacon-Double-Cheeseburgers. Even though I can > find good reason in the Bible why this may be a sin, and it has been > shown to be a health risk, I persist, and I am unrepentant, worst of all > I am proud and boastful in that (respectively, I don't believe that God > will damn me for this and I'm telling all of you about it.) > > Now, should I (on the basis that I am arguable an unrepentant sinner) be > denied ordination? Should I be required to refrain from eating BDC's > as a condition of ordination? Should I be forbidden to mention my > belief that I won't go to hell for eating BDC's? Should I tolerate the > serving of BDC's at church functions? > > Tom Blake > SUNY-Binghamton In Romans 14, Paul speaks of the "weaker brother," who stumbles at the thought of eating meat sacrificed to idols, perhaps because he feels that it is a form of idol worship. In his case, such an action would be an obstacle to his faith. Paul clearly states that, for this weaker brother, eating meat sacrificed to idols is a sin. He also clearly states that eating meat sacrificed to idols is not a sin in itself. However, Paul does say that it is wrong for you to in any way (by word or by example) encourage him to eat meat sacrificed to idols, thereby leading him into sin. Even if you are convinced that homosexuality is not a sin (and I, frankly, do not share that opinion), there are many people for which it would be. Those in a position of authority have a great responsibility for those under their care, including the responsibility for providing a good model of behavior. A pastor/minister who eats meat sacrificed to idols conveys the message that "it must be okay," and those weaker brothers in the congregation may be led astray. Likewise, a pastor/minister who is an active homosexual would convey the message that "it must be okay" to those of the congregation for whom homosexuality is a sin, possibly leading them astray. Therefore, whether or not you believe that homosexuality is a sin for you, there can be no question as to whether an active homosexual who denies that his actions are sinful should be put in a position of leadership, where his example will be scrutinized by his congregation and the world in general, and taken by some as license to stumble. I will also let you answer that question for yourself. Yours in Christ, ______________________________________________________________________ Daniel A. Harling PictureTel, Inc. 8 Forest Street Peabody, MA Rockport, MA (508) 546-9003 Opinions are the sole property of Daniel A. Harling. Any rebroadcast, retransmission, or reproduction of these opinions is permitted, provided this notice remains attached. So there. [Of course if you believe it's a sin, there's no issue. But if you don't, the argument of "weaker brethren" may be harder to apply than you suggest. As far as I can tell, Paul does not suggest that we should avoid teaching freedom from the Law for fear of offending the weaker brethren. Indeed he continually reaffirms Christian freedom. Nor does it seem to me that he proposes to hide the fact that he practices such freedom. Rather, it seems to me that what he suggests is avoiding situations that are specifically likely to encourage people to violate their consciences. Certainly serving meat to those who have scruples, and maybe even eating in their presence. But not teaching about our freedom from the Law. I agree with you that people who hold more "liberal" standards need to exercize restraint, to avoid tempting people who are not enlightened to violate their own consciences. But I don't think this extends so far that they should hide what they believe. The situation of homosexuality is a particularly difficult one (again, assuming for the moment that the act is not itself sinful), because there are two dangers to be avoided. I agree with you that if someone is tempted to homosexual activity but feels it is wrong, it's a bad idea to encourage them to violate their conscience. However there are a number of people who are already practicing homosexuals, and who consider themselves beyond the pale of the church, and sometimes failures as a human being. (I'm basing this on testimonies of homosexuals posted in this group in the past.) It could help such people to see homosexual pastors. Thus I think there are situations in which having homosexual pastors could present a danger, and other situations in which it could help bring people to Christ. So what do you do? I hate to get into a situation of counting the number of people who are damaged each way, and writing off the lesser number. What I would hope is that in a properly operating church, the pastor is more than a statue that is stuck up front as an example. Rather, I would hope that there's enough interaction with members that the leadership of the church can help deal in a pastoral manner with the dangers are presented by whichever policy they follow. --clh]