Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cwpjr
From: cwpjr@cbnewse.att.com (clyde.w.jr.phillips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: do I want to be part of this!
Summary: moderate view
Keywords: politics, Forth, and nasty words....
Message-ID: <1991Apr9.153614.20594@cbnewse.att.com>
Date: 9 Apr 91 15:36:14 GMT
References: <7286@munnari.oz.au>
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 64

In article <7286@munnari.oz.au>, caw@munnari.oz.au (Chris Wright) writes:
> Now listen....
> I'm a medium Forth programmer (post Starting Forth, can't work
> out the Zen source code, just defined my first compiler extension -
> and therefor have just seen what Forth is all about..)
> and then I read this stuff about the  "fraudulent" aspects of the
> draft standard committee. So I ask myself.. "What sort of a language
> and community is this? Do I want to be part of it? Should I not
> use Forth for a SBC project I'm organising? Should I use <Turbo sea>?"
> 
> (I ask this despite the terrific help I've received from some of
> the vendors - jax in particular)
> 
> Where's the moderate view..the middle ground..or are you really just
> a bunch of religious zealots, like my friends have been trying to 
> tell me. I hope you're not, 'cos I like Forth, and I like some of the
> people I've met on this group
> 
> chris
> 
> 
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> chris wright - a guest on melbourne university 

Chris,
	I don't know how long you've been observing this newsgroup
or participated in others. The non moderate view is not a hallmark
of FORTH or any other language. The non moderate view can be looked
at positively as "caring" about a language and it's evolution,
or it can be seen negatively as zealotry/pompuos righteousness.

I think you perhaps are seeing a thread that is *murder* in every
language, ie Standardization. Take a look at the procedings
of the ANSI C standard definition and you'll see a lot more
acrymony than here...

As for your choice, you will either come to realize FORTH's utility
or you won't. The same goes for other languages. The debates in
the respective communities won't roll over and die for your peace
of mind.

I have merrily produced multi-tasking/user SBC FORTH rom's
for years while being a sideline observer to the langauge wars.

In other words FORTH stands alone as is and will have
new "standing" after the standards "debate" subsides
and the standard becomes real.

I'd say that outside of the standard arena there is little
"committed debating" about rights vs wrongs but more a sharing
of routes and methods for getting solutions started completed.

And the vendor responsiveness you've sighted. Personally the
only more open and sharing newsgroup I've seen is comp.dsp.
And many people there use FORTH.

Again if Turbo Sea gives you everything FORTH could for your
application I might suggets you use it. Most people here use
FORTH for speed of prototyping, custom profiled performance
and mental tranquility...

Peace in FORTH if you will.

Clyde