Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ucbvax!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!cc.helsinki.fi!jalkio From: jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXT/Amiga Flamage: Get a life. Message-ID: <1991Apr9.014258.5903@cc.helsinki.fi> Date: 9 Apr 91 01:42:58 GMT References: <10834@uwm.edu> <46833@ut-emx.uucp> Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 74 In article <46833@ut-emx.uucp>, greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) writes: > In article melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> Hmmm. You might just be coming around. The Amiga interface doesn't >> need to be any snappier(do need 2.0 ROMs on all machines), but now you >> might want to add a little more functionality to the machine by adding >> Adobe Fonts and Display Postscript. This might mean a little more to > ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > Screw Adobe. Compugraphic fonts are in our future... > > As for DP, I can get that functionality when I want it through PD utilities > such as Post and many of the commercial DTP packages available for the Amiga. > When I don't need it (FrEx, running a term.) I don't have to wait on it. > > I'm not saying that DP is a "Bad Thing." I just think they shouldn't have > centered the GUI on it so much. It would have made more sense to have a > window-type that was DP. You can get device-independant graphics with out it. Well, I think it is quite nicely consistent that _everything_ you draw on the screen on a NeXT is done with Postscript. I hate add-ons and gludges. I want everything to be clear. >> people than the speed of the GUI. After a certain speed, the speed of > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> the GUI really doens't matter that much. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> I'm typing on an 8MB NeXT right now, and the performance IS >> ACCEPTABLE. But being the kind of guy that I am, I want more more > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> more... > ^^^^ > > So, you've got an 040 box (which you keep reminding us is 15MIPS (meaningless > indications of processor speed)) that still can't make it's GUI fast enough > for you. You say acceptable, but you want more? > > Sheesh. I'm typing _this_ on a 7.14Mhz 68000 Amiga and the GUI is faster than > the 040 NeXT (from personal experience). The only faster GUI I've seen (and > I've seen a few) was the _same_ one running on an 030 Amiga. Remember, the > 040 is nearly 3 times as fast as the 030, and approximately 20 times as fast > as the 68000. > >> -Mike > > Greg Hmm. Let me add my opinion about the NeXT GUI speed: The interface was too slow with 68030 and _8 MB memory_. With 68040 and 8 MB or 68030 and 16 MB the speed is just fine (I am not a robot - I can't press 10 buttons in one second). With 68040 and 16 MB the speed should be more than enough. Personally, I am ready to trade the overfast responsivity for more flexibility and nifty features. And when you do nuber-crunching, the speed is as it was with a simpler GUI. About display postscript: Well, it can't be very slow since you can even do fast _continuos_ scrolling in NeXT windows. And when you move the windows, the _whole thing_ moves, as you might know. Do you think the NeXT engineers are so dumb that they took the effort to make these kinds of things just to find that it will make the GUI too slow (and leave it that way on purpose)? BTW, have you seen Motif or some other Unix GUI on the Amiga? I am sure that it won't be near as fast as the Amiga's native GUI. And they don't even use display postscript. (I've seen X-windows on a MAC IIfx with A/UX and it sure wasn't very fast - I think Motif on top of that would be even slower.) If you think that super-responsiveness is more important than usable responsivity and more functionality, why don't you just give up using GUIs and go back to the plain command line prompt interfaces? Jouni Alkio, Helsinki, Finland