Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!nu!boyd
From: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: union demo 2
Message-ID: <1991Apr7.040622.5384@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>
Date: 7 Apr 91 08:06:20 GMT
References: <40919@cup.portal.com> <1991Apr05.082347.2154@ecst.csuchico.edu> <1991Apr5.202600.7995@wam.umd.edu>
Reply-To: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State Universiy Computer Science Department
Lines: 70

In article <1991Apr5.202600.7995@wam.umd.edu>, dmb@wam.umd.edu (David M. Baggett) writes:
>
>[.........]
>I agree with Bob.  I think it's pretty tasteless to put cheesey
>messages to one's friends in demos, and besides that, it limits the
>usefulness of the demo.  One purpose of demos is to show off the
>computer.  I remember the "walking robot" demo from Atari 8-bit days --
>I bet that sold a few machines.  But no store owner is going to put a
>demo up that says, "Howdee to all crackurs out there" or some similar
>garbage.  Correctly spelled messages might be nice occasionally, too.  :-)
>
>[...........]
>I know I've already bantered about this before, but I think demos often
>miselad non-programmers as to what the capabilities of their machine
>actually are.  You can do a heck of a lot more in a demo than you
>can in general-purpose code.
>
>[............]
>>But I agree with you, too bad we don't see more productivity products 
>>from them.  I think they could write some very nice stuff.
>
>To be honest, I'm not so sure that's true.  I don't mean to be
>critical here, but many of the demos I've seen
>
>	1) simply crash when run from a hard drive
>	2) take over the entire system
>	3) provide no way to exit the program, probably because they
>	   trash the OS in horrible ways
>	4) are usually weird and unpolished in their operation
>	5) rely on all sorts of undocumented and unsupported
>	   hardware "features", e.g., shifter bugs, instruction
>	   timings, etc.
>
>It's as though the authors only spend much time on the "nifty hack"
>parts of the demos -- the routine that puts 522 colors on the screen or
>whatever, and then just do a half-baked job on the rest.  It doesn't
>take much work to make a well-behaved program, but it requires a kind
>of discipline I guess.
>
>You can't release a productivity program with any of the above 5
>problems unless you want bad sales.  Games, on the other hand, are
>pretty much like demos in that you don't have to follow as many rules.
>
>Dave Baggett
>dmb%wam.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net

Dave, these works are not commercial efforts!!  Some of these kids are not 
even in High School yet, for cripes sake!  Recognize these demos for what 
they are:  great demoes written by pirating groups.  The messages are    
programming challenges and boasts of great hacks.  What the heck is "general 
purpose code"???  The general purpose of the Union demo is to amaze the eyes
and ears, and create envy toward the members of the Union.  Sounds good to 
me . . . 

As for the demoes being useless, I for one and amazed by many of them.  Very 
few folks leave my house without a glazed look in the eye and a new
appreciation for computer graphics.  I LOVE to show them to PC types.  They  
sell Atari machines (and Amiga machines). 

The only thing that scares me is:  What the hell are we going to do when the
little buggers hit the job market . . . .  :-)

 
--
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             Mickey R. Boyd          |  "Kirk to Enterprise.  All clear 
          FSU Computer Science       |      down here.  Beam down    
        Technical Support Group      |      yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ."
      email:  boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu  |               
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