Xref: utzoo comp.sys.mac.misc:10511 comp.windows.ms:11140 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!jyen From: jyen@Apple.COM (John Yen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.windows.ms Subject: software testing Keywords: software test simple - funny... Message-ID: <12911@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 4 Apr 91 04:39:38 GMT References: <4482@orbit.cts.com> Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA Lines: 35 Rick Allard writes: > >To achieve this, the engineer has to... > >(3) > >test the program with real users, being as open as humanly possible to > >complaints and suggestions, and (4) revise and test in a seemingly > >endless cycle until the interface and functionality are "right." > In my day-to-day use, especially of Microsoft stuff -- only > partially accounting for scale, I cannot believe houses do nearly > enough of this. Yes, software is complicated, but it doesn't > vary statistically like an auto nor is it difficult to test. '- nor is it difficult to test'?! Have you ever tested non-trivial commercial software? Think about all the equivalence classes of input and output, matrixed with possible hardware configurations, matrixed with interactions with other software, matrixed with different uses and users of the software. That's just off the top of my head. User testing is hugely important, no question. It is IMHO not necessarily the hardest part of testing a given software product. It is nonetheless IMHO difficult to do well. There should be a full range of users across several hardware/software configurations in varying environments, with engineers watching, listening, but saying NOT 1 DAMN THING -- this is an experiment; interaction destroys validity. This is neither a defense of user-hostile software nor an attack on Microsoft; this is a statement of incredulity that at least some users seem to believe good software is crunched out like so many cookies. This will be posted to comp.software-eng just to remind the people there of how little credit is given to good design and quality engineering. After so many years of godawful software, I can't _believe_ some people think like this... John Yen jyen@apple.com 7.0 kernel test team Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, #include , etc blah...