Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Misconceptions about JW's (Re: Lazarus again) Message-ID: Date: 4 Apr 91 05:53:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 91 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu *Please, don't press 'n' yet!!!* Yesterday, I posted a message crying for Christian Unity. In support I cited Mark 9:38-41 and Luke 9:49-50 (I'll cite them again.) I went home in fear that someone would cite Matthew 12:30 as a counter. It was only this morning that I realized (it was revealed to me? ;-) ) why it is not a contrary verse. First the readings I've already cited... >Mark 9:38-41 > 38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man who was driving out demons >in your name, and we told him to stop, because he doesn't belong to our >group." > 39 "Do not try to stop him," Jesus told them, "because no one who >performs a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward to say evil >things about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I >assure you that anyone who gives you a drink of water because you belong >to me will certainly receive his reward. (TEV) > >Luke 9:49-50 > 49 John spoke up, "Master, we saw a man driving out demons in your >name, and we told him to stop, because he doesn't belong to our group." > 50 "Do not try to stop him," Jesus said to him and to the other >disciples, "because whoever is not against you is for you." (TEV) Now, Matthew 12:30-35 30 "Anyone who is not for me is really against me; anyone who does not help me gather is really scattering. 31 For this reason I tell you: people can be forgiven any sin and any evil thing they say; * but whoever says evil things against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who says something against the Son of Man can be forgiven; but whoever says something against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven-now or ever. 33 "To have good fruit you must have a healthy tree; if you have a poor tree, you will have bad fruit. A tree is known by the kind of fruit it bears. 34 You snakes-how can you say good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good person brings good things out of his treasure of good things; a bad person brings bad things out of his treasure of bad things. * evil thing they say; or evil thing they say against God. (TEV) At first glance, Jesus seems to contradict himself. "Whoever is not against us is for us." "Whoever is not against you is for you." As opposed to "Anyone who is not for me is really against me." First let me point out that in Matthew he is referring to himself, in Mark and Luke he is referring to (respectively) he and the disciples or just the disciples. (Matthew, the Spirit. Mark and Luke the Church.) In Matthew, Jesus has cast out a demon, and the Pharisees say that he has power to do this because he is in league with Beelzebul. Jesus counters that Beelzebul would not give him such powers, since a country divided against itself will fall apart. (I suspect he'd say the same thing about the church). In any case, he turns against the Pharisees because they are saying things against the workings of the spirit. In Mark and Luke, Jesus tells his disciples not to turn against a non-disciple casting out demons in the name of Jesus. If the man is casting out demons in the name of Jesus, must he not be doing the work of the spirit? (It appears the verses are all talking about not interfering with the work of the spirit.) Recently people have been discussing the unforgivable sin. Jesus says that you can say anything evil about God, or the Son of Man and that can be forgiven, but to say anything against the Spirit cannot be forgiven. When we criticize our brothers and sisters, and claim that they are not "Christians" (even though they are doing the work of the spirit in the name of Jesus) don't we commit that one unforgivable sin!? How are we to know whether a tree is good or bad? By the fruit it bears. If a tree bears good fruit, how can we call it bad? And if a church does good works in the name of Jesus, how can we say that they are not Christian? We should heed John's words of advice: Luke 3:9 The ax is ready to cut down the trees at the roots; every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown in the fire." (TEV) It's about time we started looking at our branches brothers and sisters. It's time we started pruning ourselves. What fruit do we bear? What words do we speak? What sort of witness do we bear to the world with all of this infighting and rivalry in the church? Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton