Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Tithing Message-ID: Date: 4 Apr 91 06:21:49 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International, Menlo Park, CA. Lines: 154 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Glenn Chappell writes: ---------------------------------------- Why split it? Your church needs money. Further, you are *part*of* your church, so your first responsibility is to it, as opposed to other organizations. So, if you want to give to other organizations, you can give above & beyond what you give to your church. Understand that God says generosity will be rewarded, and God is faithful. So, those of us that are Christians, let's "put our money where our mouth is". It's easy (for me at least) to trust God for eternal life...but trusting that God will reward me for generosity is a serious exercise of faith. Try it! ---------------------------------------- My view of tithing is that it is indeed part of the Law of which Christ is the end. For this reason it is, as Paul and Jesus both say, summed up in the commandments to love God and one's neighbor. To my mind, these issues get clouded by the institutional character of the `church'. Because the visible church exists largely as an organization with institutional characteristics, it has all the imperatives of other human institutions, like paying salaries and bills, buying and building buildings etc. Whether or not God intended that the church should come to be like this, I have little doubt that the early Church didn't do things like this. From what I can remember in the New Testament, there were only two things the early Christians ever spent money on as Christians: 1) To meet the needs of poor Christians, and 2) To support the ministries of the Apostles and other leaders. In the first instance, our main recorded example of this is when Paul discusses the matter with the Corinthians, telling to lay money aside as God has prospered them. The emphasis here is on the completely voluntary nature of the giving, where Paul says that each should give as they've decided in their hearts. Note also that this is a one time thing that the Gentile churches agreed to participate in to relieve the Jerusalem Christians of the hard times they were going through. In the second instance, the recorded examples all involve money given to individuals. In one case, Paul says that anyone who is taught by someone should share his material goods with that person. In another case, the Phillipians send money to Paul. I don't recall, off hand, any other instances. (Paul also says that those who preach the Gospel should live by it.) The way I read this second instance is that my money should be given either to people whose teaching I am receiving, or to people whom God is using to grow his church in whose ministry I wish to participate. There is no example of giving money to an organization like our current churches. One might say that in those primitive times that was the equivalent of what we do now. But I think there are some important issues that this overlooks. 1) It is now the normal case for pastors and the like to receive a salary. In what way does this show any more faith in God's ability to provide than I have to show when I pick up my paycheck? Shouldn't there be SOME way in which the spiritual head of the church stands out in practical faith? The normal case, also, is that the pastor should live as well as the congregation. This means that, for example, I, when I was relatively poor, could watch the edifying spectacle of my pastor driving a Porche and living in a large, expensive house, when I was driving a motorcycle and sleeping in a 60 sq. foot bedroom. (This is a large evangelical church, by the way.) 2) These days financial accountability is a big matter. The way I see it, though, giving should be just that: giving. If the spiritual leader I give the money to takes it and bets it on a horse, that should be between him and God. I am not buying something, or paying for something; I am giving my money away because I feel that's what God wants me to do with it. What this means is that I have to take some responsibility. I probably shouldn't give money to spiritual leaders who play the horses. But once the money is out of my hands, that should be it. The point is that the relationship of giving and receiving should be a personal one. I should give to someone who I know and feel God is using, perhaps because God has used that person in my life; perhaps because I've heard of results elsewhere. This is what I see happening in the New Testament. 3) I've never seen any biblical justification for the Church of Jesus Christ to own property. In light of the fact that Christ himself had nowhere to lay his head, it seems like some of the edifices that represent him are a bit much. 4) The Church has been notorious through history to this very day for literally looting credulous believers. This makes unbelievers have that much more trouble taking Christianity seriously. 5) There seems to be an attitude that God can't act if the financial resources aren't there. One campus Christian organization I used to belong to took as one of the `signs' of a person being `called' to work with them whether they were able to raise their support. Fundraising often seems as essential to a ministry as preaching the gospel or doing whatever the ministry does. I can include in this even people I respect. I recently received a fund-raising letter from one organization, in the name of someone I respect, that had all the gimmicks: words underlined in fake marking pen, a personal note in fake marking pen saying how urgent it was, and all the rest. Take by contrast the example of George Mueller, who built several orphanages in England. He had a guiding principle, scrupulously adhered to, to NEVER ask for money. In fact, people would ask him what needs he had, and he would say that the Lord was providing. He even sent money to Hudson Taylor's work in China. His orphans never missed a meal, and only once was a meal delayed for 1/2 hour waiting for money. He said, when trying to decide whether to build another orphanage, ``If God doesn't need another orphanage, I certainly don't.'' 6) Money is often used as a means of control; people who give money to an organization expect some voice in how it is run. I think this occurs even in Christian organizations. In my mind, the Church ought to be much less institutionalized than it is now. People should give money to the PEOPLE they are receiving ministry from and others they wish to support. This giving should be FREE giving, with no strings attached. Those who are getting money should never take money with strings attached. Churches should meet in houses or rented halls. They should not own property (especially when the property lies unused for most of the week!). This would eliminate the major need for a regular budget -- the need to pay the bills. Churches that get too big could split if God doesn't somehow provide a bigger hall. (By the way, God's providing doesn't rule out people going out and LOOKING for one!) As far as the individual is concerned, giving should be completely voluntary. Sure, the need for giving can be mentioned. I should say it's a lot more convincing if it's not immediately followed by an offering plate! The individual should see the money God gives as something God has given as a means of participating in the kingdom of God. (The bible, by the way, says we should work so we will have something to share with those in need!) Each of us should take the initiative in seeing how we can use that money for God's glory. But it shouldn't be coerced or brow-beaten out of us. If God is behind something, his spirit can motivate people to get behind it. If not, I don't want to be a part of it! I know this sounds idealistic, but I really think this is one of the areas where the Church as a whole has really lost sight of its Lord. -Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com -- -Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com