Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: djdaneh@pacbell.com (Dan'l DanehyOakes) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Original sin of infants Message-ID: Date: 5 Apr 91 09:07:47 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA Lines: 64 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >There are at least two viable definitions of sin: This is because there are two types of sin. Conveniently, one is essentially a noun, and one a verb. >1) Sin is a state of separation from God which all humans experience, >and are born into, as a result of Adam's sin. The so-called "bad acts" >we commit are a result of this separation from God. This is the "noun." >2) Sin is a knowing, conscious act of disobedience against God. And this is the "verb." It should really read "Sinning is a knowing..." The "noun" is the *result* of the verb. Any action which results in increasing that separation is sinning, is a sinful act. But, as you yourself note, "all humans. . . are born into [sin] as a result of Adam's sin." This is what the Catholics and some more conservative Protestants refer to as "Original Sin," the initial separation from God, with which we are born and which we can not bridge by any act of our own wills. >Clearly infants fall under case (1) but not case (2). Correct. >Apart from this, even given that infants are original sinners under >case (1) I have yet to be convinced that baptism is a magic talisman >against original sin, nor that such a talisman is necessary. It isn't a "talisman." It is a symbolic act, intended as an acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, and specifically intended to begin the process of healing the rift between human and God by *permitting* God (who will not violate our freewill unless invited) to create that bridge, without which we can never reach God by our own actions and will. Given that, it seems that the most loving thing a parent can do for a child is to baptise him/her in the name of Jesus and of His Father and of the Holy Spirit, to give that child the chance to reach God even if he/she dies before reaching the age where s/he can make conscious decisions to sin or not to sin. >The key question to be answered is the following: Does being born >with a sinful nature necessarily mean that one has committed sin >just by being born? No. As I said above, they are really two words, and one is the result of the other. Because we are a fallen race, we have some of that "result" even before we individually begin to commit sin. KUWAIT: First there is a country, then there is no country, then there is. The Roach