Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Misconceptions about JW's (Re: Lazarus again) Message-ID: Date: 6 Apr 91 06:38:54 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 118 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Brothers and Sisters, Well, now I'm getting E-mail from people trying to explain to me why JW's are not Christians. (Surprisingly I haven't received any anti-LDS E-mail yet. I wonder if I'll receive any anti-RC E-mail?) In essense, this mail boils down to: "their beleifs are not like ours (mine)" so they are not Christians! What makes a Christian a Christian bothers and sisters? To my mind, a Christian is a follower of Christ. They study, and presumably try to follow the teachings of Christ. They are a disciple. But the man casting out demons in Mark 9:38 Luke 9:49 wasn't a disciple was he? He wasn't one of Jesus' followers. But he was casting out demons in Jesus name!? And Jesus wasn't upset by this!? He told his disciples not to stop him! That he was on their side since he wasn't on the other side! (So it appears, that even *my* definition may be wrong.) We have a number of fascinating disputes, but what difference do they make? 1. Saved-Once/Being Saved Some of us believe that we are saved once, and that is sufficient. Some of us believe that we are always in the process of being saved. We both believe that our sins can be forgiven. None of us believe that a Christian should sin. All of us believe that all Christians are sinners. All of us have come to our respective believs through careful study of the scriptures. 2. Jesus is God/Jesus is a God (Trinity/Nontrinity) Some of us believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one. (Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer) Some of us believe that they are separate entities. All of us believe that all three are holy. None of us believe that one of these three is the devil. All of us have come to our respective beliefs through careful study of the scriptures. 3. Immediate Afterlife/Eventual Afterlife Some of us believe that we will immediately go to Heaven or Hell. Some of us believe we will sleep first, the proceed to Heaven or Hell. Most of us believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell, and that based upon our lives on Earth we will go to one or the other. All of us have come to our respective beliefs through careful study of the scripture. I can go on, fill in your own favorites... What positive difference do any of these make? When we focus on these issues, don't we rob the cross of it's power? Doesn't our insistance on the teachings of our denomination become idolatry? If we call ourselves Christians, we are all brothers and sisters. Why then do we pick fights? Is this our ministry? To criticize each other because of our beliefs? Are we so proud of ourselves and our wisdom that we know the mind of God? Which one of us advised God at the creation? Which one of us suggested to Jesus the pre-requisites of salvation? Does anyone in this group *agree* with me? Or am I just typing to see characters appear on my screen? Hear John's cry: Matthew 3:7-12 7 When John saw many Pharisees and Sadducess coming to him to be baptized, he said to them, "You snakes-who told you that you could escape from the punishment God is about to send? 8 Do those things that will show that you have turned from your sins. 9 And don't think you can escape punishment by saying that Abraham is your ancestor. I tell you that God can take these rocks and make descendants for Abraham! 10 The ax is ready to cut down the trees at the roots; every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown in the fire. 11 I baptize you with water to show that you have repented, but the one who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. He is much greater than I am; and I am not good enough even to carry his sandals. 12 He has his winnowing shovel with him to thresh out all the grain. He will gather his wheat into his barn, but he will burn the chaff in a fire that never goes out." (TEV) I don't believe that calling ourselves Christians is any better than claiming that we are children of Abraham. What sort of fruit grows on our branches? Hear Jesus' Warning: Matthew 12:33-37 33 "To have good fruit you must have a healthy tree; if you have a poor tree, you will have bad fruit. A tree is known by the kind of fruit it bears. 34 You snakes-how can you say good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good person brings good things out of his treasure of good things; a bad person brings bad things out of his treasure of bad things. 36 "You can be sure that on the Judgement Day everyone will have to give account of every useless word he has ever spoken. 37 Your words will be used to judge you-to declare you either innocent or guilty." (TEV) Are we ready to give account of our words? What will the verdict be? Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton From John Michael Talbot's albulm _The Regathering_: There is one faith, one hope and one baptism One God and Father of all There is one church, one body, one life in the Spirit Now given so freely to all