Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!lizardo.wpi.edu!shari From: hanif@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Hanif G Khalak) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: Islamic Modest Dress Summary: hijab is linked to morality Message-ID: <1991Apr9.061824.19228@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 9 Apr 91 06:18:24 GMT References: <1991Apr1.185557.2314@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Sender: news@wpi.WPI.EDU (News) Reply-To: hanif@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Hanif G Khalak) Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 73 Approved: shari@wpi.wpi.edu Originator: shari@lizardo.wpi.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: lizardo.wpi.edu In article <1991Apr1.185557.2314@nntp-server.caltech.edu> anoosh@mips.com (Anoosh Hosseini) writes: >In article <1991Mar31.205647.29791@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, bes@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes: >> In article <1661@spim.mips.COM> anoosh@wildcat.mips.com (Anoosh Hosseini) writes: >>>jenAb AghAyeh Sadeghi [ deleted ] >>> Since you have some free time, how about doing some homework on >>>the culture of people living in the tropical regions and parts of Africa.These >>>people dress "naked" even by Western standards. They neither follow Islam nor >>>and Chritianity, but their societies do not exhibit the moral problems >>>associated with lack of "proper" clothing. Maybe we could learn something >>>from these people. I hope you agree that it is moral values of society which >>>determine behavior (and thus self control) not the amount of clothing. I'm sure that a lot can be learned, but you've pretty much taken this issue out of the context of sciety as a whole. Sexual deviance/crimes are not the part and parcel of the problems of society. Many seem to have an infatuation with it, but this does not mean that it is the only 'deal'. Propriety is both functional and principle. Islamically speaking, there is benefit in all good (Please, I'm not giving Fatwah), but this benefit does not PRECEDE that good. You've made a valid point, in the same line, that self-control is not strictly due to propriety. But this lack of mutual inclusion does NOT make the situation mutually EXCLUSIVE. >stand by the thought that it is people with strong social values which prevents >these problems, not the mere cover of the female/male body. This is close to the argument that 'pornography is not an issue, after all, people don't just go out and buy magazines; go crazy; and rape/hurt'. Even aside from the issue of propriety, addressing the factor of influence: this view seems to be very opaque. The immediate effect of immodest dress/ behavior is NOT always apparent, and it is not the short-term effect which is necessarily the issue. People talk about being brain-washed, being effected by environment, and the 'mind-mush' effect of TV. Sensation is a complicated thing. Your assumption that morality is not a function of dress would seem to ignore this. >True, but for the majority of Iranians who believe in Islam, no enforcement >of hijab should be required. The men should not be looking at other people's >daughters and wives, and vice-versa. Those who wish to be involved in >immoral activity, will do so with or without hejab enforcement. Hejab by >itself does not prevent such activity. I have very little insight into Iranian culture/religiosity, but I know that in America, one can be arrested for indecent exposure. I know very few people, given the circumstances, say, that someone went into Martin Brother's Cafe and exposed indecent, who would blame the management for calling the police or throwing that person out. I included. :) The issue here is not privacy, is it? After all, that person would have, under your assertion, a moral right over the patrons in the restaurant for their lasciviousness in looking at him/her. Where IS that self-control, PEOPLE?! >done deal, here I am. ?? > >-anoosh Walaikum Assalam, Hanif -- /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ | Hanif G. Khalak | hanif@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | | 308D WRW, UT/Austin | hanif@ticom.ae.utexas.edu | | Austin, TX 78712 | phone: (512) 471-4704 | \__________________________________________________________________/