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From: felixh@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu (Felix Hack)
Subject: Re: Possible bug in Harpoon
Message-ID: <1991Apr12.082251.22705@agate.berkeley.edu>
Keywords: harpoon bug
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References: <1991Apr11.192923.86559@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1991 08:22:51 GMT
Lines: 47

  I've never seen anything like this bug, but then I find a new bug in Harpoon
everytime I play it . . . . It's unlikely that my patches could cause this
because the weapons loadouts on subs were not touched (has anyone figured
out the correct codes?  I just figured out airplane weapon codes, but
the codes for sub weapon pointers seem incomprehensible).  At best I
may have monkeyed with the range or hit chance of the type 65's, but I
don't think so because torpedo data was about the only correct data 
(as defined by the 1990-91 Harpoon Data Annex for the boardgame)
in the entire game!  Odd too that there would be a delay for reloading;
type 65 torps go in the Victor III's 65cm torpedo tubes.  Once they're
fired, the only other weapon that fits there are the anti-sub SSN16's.
The 533mm torps which are capable vs ships come out of the two 533mm (surprise)
tubes.  In other words, there shouldn't be any sort of delay.
  Actually, the game is really screwed up in firing rates and reloading.  
I'm always able to shoot lots of torpedoes and missiles at the same time,
not just a few at a time, and there doesn't seem to be any reload
time needed for sub torpedo weapons as far as I can tell.
  It seems to me that sub operations are about the most screwed up part
of Harpoon.  I just get really frustrated by oversights in what I
consider critical areas if you want to accuratlely model ASW ops.  The
data patches were done with the hope that fixing the sonars would help
the situation, but it really doesn't, because the basic detection
system is wrong (as documented previously, even with a very slim
chance of detection, getting a shot every 30 seconds means that you
ultimately have a very high chance of achieving detection once
a target comes within maximum sonar range.)
  For those having problems with scenarios running just subs (especially
in GIUK), I have all sorts of problems too. I think the simplifications
in the game favor the Soviets over NATO because the Soviets have more
platforms to take advantage of spurious perfect targetting intelligence.
  I also dislike that all ASW weapons seem to be bearing-only capable,
which means they can be fired at unlocalized contacts.  In real life only
a heavy wire-guided torpedo would have a chance at such a target if
the range is not point-blank, and you'd still probably need to get an
idea of target range at some point to tell the torpedo when to start
searching.  Light air-dropped torpedoes, SSN14, SSN15, SSN16, etc., Sea
Lance, and so on need to be employed almost right on top of their targets,
so exact localization should be required.  But no, Harpoon abstracts all
that away so now the Soviets can drop SSN15 nukes on the most
spurious NATO contacts.  Oh well.
  I guess after waiting so long I had hoped Harpoon would be better.  Right
now Simulation Canada's Grey Seas Grey Skies is about as good in some
ways, and better in others, while lacking the often disfunctional
graphics of Harpoon.  Too bad Amiga GSGS isn't out.
 
Felix