Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!wd0gol!rathe!ian From: ian@rathe.cs.umn.edu (Ian Hogg) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp Subject: Re: Switching from Sun to HP: some general questions Message-ID: <1991Apr11.141050.5207@rathe.cs.umn.edu> Date: 11 Apr 91 14:10:50 GMT References: Organization: Rathe, Inc. Lines: 186 In article jjc@jclark.UUCP (James Clark) writes: > >If I get some replies, I'll summarize to this group, since I suspect >there are other who have similar concerns to me. If you reply but >don't want your remarks to appear in the summary, or want to remain >anonymous, please say so and I'll be glad to comply. I've got a lot >of questions, but I would like to hear from you even if you want to >answer only one of them. > > >My main concern is about HPUX. My second-hand impression of it is >that it's based on some old version of System V, and that it's a bit >old-fashioned and non-standard, and generally not quite as good as >SunOS. Is this a fair assessment? I find HP-UX to quite solid and has most of the features I'd like except for mmap & threads. These are in OSF/1. > >Does HPUX include DWB? > Yes but it doesn't have troff. I've used xroff from Image Network and several people in the newgroup recommend eroff from Elan. >Does HPUX support long filenames, symlinks, job control, sockets, NFS? >Is it POSIX compliant? > Yes on all counts. (I'm not 100% sure on job control but I think I've diddled with it in ksh. >With the 2-user version of HPUX, does a uucp login count as a user? >Does a rlogin count as a user? > I've had some problems with this in the past. I recommend that you log in to your system via VUE or xdm. If you use VUE HP has a patch for login so that VUE doesn't suck up both users. All logins via the network count as one user. So if you log in via VUE and severl other people are rlogin'ed or telnet'ed in you will only count as one user. This leaves one login available for uucp. >Does uucp work reliably at 19200 bps? Is it a solid version of uucp? > I ran UUCP at 19200 off a MUX card. Some people have pointed out the limitations of the built in serial card. >Does HPUX provide lpr or does it only provide lp? Does it support >PostScript printers? > Lp but it does support Berkely remote spooling. I had to roll my own stuff to spool to a postscript printer. If you still have a Sun laying around, attach your Postscript printer to it. >Somebody said that OSF/1 was going to be available by the end of this >year. Does this mean that a production version suitable for end users >will be available by then? Does this mean HP will be shipping OSF/1 >as their standard OS by then? Will OSF/1 run HPUX binaries? > I'll let someone from HP handle this one. >Is BSD 4.4 likely to be available? If so, will the machine dependent >parts be freely redistributable? If not, does HP document their >hardware enough that it would be possible for somebody to port it? > I think you can buy BSD from Mt. Xinu. >How good (fast, robust) is HP's implementation of X? Does it include >all of X11R4? Is it reasonably close to X11R4? Does the MIT X11R4 >distribution build on a 9000/730? Is the R5 distribution likely to? >Do HP document their graphics hardware enough to port a window system? > HP's X is fasr and robust. Do not use the X server off the MIT tape. It is significantly slower. Optimized servers have been place on some HP machine somewhere. I don't know exactly what server you'll get with your system. I was running HP's server (R3 based but has R4 extensions like SHAPE) with the MIT R4 Xlib, Xt, Xaw, and Motif 1.1 (we licensed it from OSF). I don't know when HP will ship R4 libs and Motif 1.1. >How good is HP hardware and software support? Is it reasonably >priced? Can one access support by email? > >How does HP's 19'' monitor compare to the Trinitron that Sun ships? >How about the keyboard and mouse? How noisy/hot would a system with >two internal 400Mb disks be? Would it be reasonably pleasant in an >office environment? Does it connect directly to thinwire ethernet? Is >HP hardware generally reliable? > We've had very good experiences with HP. Connects to either thin or thick ethernet (at least 375 and 400's do). >I'm concerned about exchanging data with people who don't have HPs. >Can I get a third party SCSI tape that handles Sun-compatible QIC-24 >or QIC-150 tapes? I don't know, I always read/wrot QIC tapes via rsh and a SUN. I have used Exabyte's to transfer data. > >My salesman said that 400Mb was the biggest external disk that HP >offered on the 730. This seems a bit on the small side. Is HP likely >to offer bigger disks, or does it want me to buy a 750 if I need lots >of disk space? Can I use third-party SCSI disks? > We don't buy any disks from HP. We buy our own usually Imprimis Sabres, Wrens, but haven't tried Elites. I posted a program to this newsgroup that generates "/etc/disktab" entries for Imprimis disk drives (haven't triesd it with other drives) >In addition to DAT, I was told there was a writable CD-ROM available >(C1701A or something like that). Is this intended as an alternative >to DAT as a mass-backup device? I suspect not, since it seems to be >slower, have lower capacity, and be more expensive than DAT. Can it >mounted like a normal disk, or does one treat it like a tape? Would >CD-ROMs written with this drive be readable with Sun's CD-ROM drive? > I used Exabytes for backup. You can either buy as an OEM from Exabyte (I think we payed about $2500) or buy from various suppliers. I am quite happy with Perfect Byte because they provide a device driver and monitor program. >Are gcc and g++ available? If not, do HP provide enough information >about their architecture that somebody could port them? If so, is the >code quality competitive with HP? How about gdb? What debugging >format does HP use? Is it COFF, stabs, or something peculiar to HP? >If the last, is it documented? Does HP offer dbx? > The 900/8xx versions of these should work. >How reliable is the standard C compiler? Are the higher optimization >levels sufficiently reliable to be usable? Is ANSI C included with >HPUX or available separately? > At last check it was available separately. >How good is HP's C++ (Softbench) offering? Is it based on cfront 2.0 >or 2.1? How good is the debugger? Is it as good as Saber C++? Is >Saber C++ likely to become available? > I was very happy using C++ (Softbench). I was a beta site last fall for C++ Softbench. The beta software was based on 2.1 (I think). HP and Saber have announced Saber C++ for Softbench. Last summer I had to develop a demo to be presented at the IEEE Power Society Summer Meeting. I had 1 month to do it in and it was based on HP OpenView. I was the first person to actually use OpenView. So, in one month I learned Softbench, OpenView and developed the demo. I doubt I could have done it in two months without Softbench. >In general, how easy is it to port free software to HPUX? Most things >seem to port to SunOS with little effort. To what extent is this true >of HPUX? > I've ported quite a few things and the degree of difficulty is varying. I've built up a library of BSD routines for HP-UX. I don't think porting is all that difficult. >I would also be interested in any other random comments that you might >have about the relative merits of Sun and HP workstations. > I would rather have a 9000/375 than the SparcStation I I have know. The new 700's are the obvious choice. >James Clark >jjc@jclark.uucp >jjc%jclark@mcsun.eu.net >jjc@ai.mit.edu -- Ian Hogg email: ian@rathe.cs.umn.edu ...!umn-cs!rathe!ian Rathe, Inc ianhogg@cs.umn.edu 366 Jackson Street phone: (612) 225-1401