Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!princeton!shade!sksircar From: sksircar@shade.Princeton.EDU (Subrata Sircar) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Spreadsheets Message-ID: <8273@idunno.Princeton.EDU> Date: 14 Apr 91 20:14:10 GMT References: <1991Apr13.115926.4528@neon.Stanford.EDU> <8242@idunno.Princeton.EDU> <1991Apr14.055653.10146@neon.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@idunno.Princeton.EDU Organization: SPAMIT Lines: 103 zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: >sksircar@shade.Princeton.EDU (Subrata Sircar) writes: >>zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: >>> [...] the big three: >>> Spreadsheets >>> Wordprocessing/Desktop Publishing >>> Databases >> >>This is an outdated catagorization of software, IMHO. Where do Mathematica, >>Matlab, compilers, and graphics programs fit here? Any business that is >>buying computers just for these three uses will buy cheap IBM clone ... >The catagorization is not outdated, it is a fact of life for computers. The >prodcuts you mention, Mathematica, Matlab, and compilers while important >pieces of software, they do not make or break a machine like the big 3 will. >I consider graphics to be part of both spreadsheets (graphing) and Desktop >Publishing (Drawing). BTW, before you knock IBM clones, all of the software >you mention is available for the IBM clones and the Macs. (In fact, one of >the best symbolic math packages is only available for the IBM PC. (Derive) First, I agree that IBM clones can do a lot of things - the big thing they lack is that graphical user interface both as a standard, and with the functionality that the Macinotsh and NeXT have (Windows is buggy, doesn't run some software (like MatLab) and doesn't do all the nice things the Mac GUI does, but this is a side issue and need not detain us). My point here is just that if that's what you want to do, you don't buy a NeXT (as price/perfornmance issues will kill you) - you have to want other things. As far as catagorization is concerned - those big three (while forming a large chunk of my impression of a computer) are no longer make it/break it points for a computer. The scientific/engineering community doesn't want those, they want powerful CAD packages, fast processing power, a killer development environment, etc. and they are significant players these days. You don't sell Lisp Machines to business people wanting spreadsheets >Wrong! Pages 9-7 through 9-15 of the Improv manual tells how to import a >1-2-3 file. It can be done, but I would not like to have to do it on a >regular basis. Not only do things have to be converted, but you lose all of >your macros! Later in the chapter, it tells about exporting files. It is >not clear how well this might work. I will comment that once you have Improv, you'll only have to import spreadsheets once or twice, and then everything will be in Improv's format. Secondly, you are right on the mark about macros. Hopefully Lotus will build the wonderful macro capability of 1-2-3 into Improv - enough other users have been vocal about that on the net. Third, SoftPC should allow you to do what you're asking - that was part of the point of the floppy drive. >Compatability between platforms in not rated nearly high enough. NeXT >actually realizes this. Why do you think you can write an IBM DOS disk on the >NeXT. Well, my experience has generally been that if I want to move things between different platforms I either a) make it plain text or b) hope that I'm using the same program on both platforms (such as MatLab on the Sun and the Mac). I generally use the (admittedly large and varied) computing power at my disposal in different ways - using the NeXT to develop my thesis applications, using the Mac, the NeXT and the SparcStations for text entry, and using the Mac and the Sun for computing power through MatLab. Given the ubiquitous nature of networking (something the NeXT wants to excel at), especially around here, I don't need anything else. Porting code, on the other hand, is a very different story. There I'd kill for everybody using whatever it is I'm moving code to :<) >>Lastly, have you considered the possibility that Improv, and things like >>Interface Builder, might become the NEW industry standard? > >No, because they won't. The industry standard for spreadsheets will probably >be the Gnu spreadsheet currently in the works. As for IB, it also will not >be the standard. The standard will use Motif and C++. Abandoning the Interface Builder for Motif would be a tragedy. I sincerely doubt that Motif will be a standard either, but that's a side issue. C++, maybe. But who cares? Using the IB you don't really care what language you're writing in until you've finished the interface. A tool like the IB will be part of the future development standard, IMHO. If Motif is so good, why did IBM choose to port NeXTStep to the RISC 6000 workstation? Clearly they see some benefits there, or they wouldn't have done it. >No, a reasonable platform will not persuade people to port/write software, >Market share and incentives from the hardware manufacturer will. NeXT is approaching that. >Dec has a reasonable platform in the Dec 3100 and Dec 5000 platform. Yet for >some reason they have to go out to companies and encourage them to >port to that platform. The Amiga is another example of your argument. Wonderful hardware, lousy software. My point is that commercial viability is not solely determined by being able to read/write other people's products; if you can, you do it providing better products at at possibly cheaper price. The jury is still out on whether NeXT does that. Subrata Sircar | sksircar@phoenix.princeton.edu |Prophet& SPAMIT Charter Member I don't speak for Princeton, and they don't speak for me. "May their souls rot in easy-listening hell!" - Johnny Melnibone, GRIMJACK #76 "I seem to suffer from irrelevant flashbacks." - Paul, PAUL THE SAMURAI #1