Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gt5614b@prism.gatech.edu (Butera, Robert J.) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Christian attitudes w/ Jews Message-ID: Date: 10 Apr 91 08:58:23 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 79 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I have two questions about the relationship between Christians and the Jewish people. Since I'm new to this group, I feel that they may have been discussed already, so please respond via Email if redundant. 1) What is a good Christian attitude toward the salvation of the Jewish people? I could take the New Testament as it is, which says quite clearly that those who don't acknowledge Jesus Christ as our savior will not achieve salvation. But others have told me that the Jews are God's chosen people and He has His own plans for them. 2) I've heard many say that we Christians are not "under the law", and thus not subject to the much of the customs and observances in the Old Testament. Please provide me with scriptural support for this. Also, if this is so, how do we know what to follow from the OT and what not to? (I know that this a virtually textbook question for a well versed Christian and I've heard the answer, but my mind slips me right now!) -- Robert John Butera Jr., aka "Knome" | "Indeed, one can reasonably argue Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332 | that total objectivity can only uucp: ...!{...}!gatech!prism!gt5614b | be the product of total indifference ARPA: gt5614b@prism.gatech.edu | or total ignorance" -- Jody Powell [Since we seem to be in the middle of a discussion on point 1, I guess this posting is relevant. Point 2 is sort of a commonly-asked question. I think we've dealt with it fairly recently, so I'm not sure whether we want to restart that discussion. As you say, the case that those who don't acknowledge Christ as savior is pretty obvious. There are two major responses that I know of, one of which is specific to Jews. (1) The general one is that it may be possible to come to know Christ in your heart without specifically knowing that it's Christ. (Rom 1 and 2 are sometimes cited as justifying this argument.) It seems that a number of people believe something like that is possible for people who haven't heard the Gospel at all (e.g. those who live in areas where it hasn't reached). If you accept that, it might seem reasonable to extend it to people with a history of persecution by Christians, since what they have seen of Christ is probably worse than not having heard of him at all. (2) The specific one is Rom 11:25-26, which says that the Jews rejection of Christ is temporary, and in the end all Jews will be saved. I believe most people read this as meaning all Jews that are alive at the time will be saved, rather than all Jews who have ever lived, but some have taken the latter interpretation. The most commonly cited references to Christians and the Law are Romans and Galatians. Really most of Romans and a large part of Gal. are about this subject, so I'm reluctant to abstract single passages. At any rate, giving a complete exposition is more than I want to do as moderator. You might also want to look at Acts 15, which discusses a meeting in Jerusalem where it was decided that most of the Law did not apply to non-Jewish Christians. The major approaches to what to take from the OT are: (1) What has been superceded is that part of the Law that defined a specific covenant with Israel, as opposed to basic human ethics. People don't entirely agree where the dividing line is, but generally those who take this approach believe that specific ceremonies (e.g. circumcision), holidays, kosher laws, etc. are symbols of the covenant, whereas laws against murder, idolatry, etc., are still in force. (People often speak of the ceremonial law vs. the moral law.) Most people seem to agree that the 10 commandments are still in force. The primary disagreement seems to be about the Sabbath: A few Christians believe we should still worship on the Sabbath (Saturday), whereas the rest believe that defining that specific day as holy is part of the ceremonial law and no longer applies. (However we should still set apart a regular time for worship.) (2) Some people take Paul as saying that the Law is not binding at all. This means that Christian ethics has to be reconstructed from scratch based on the principle of love for God and your neighbor, and other teachings of Jesus. Even people who take this approach generally believe that the 10 commandments can be justified on such grounds, so disagreements tend to be in fairly limited areas, primarily in sexual ethics (e.g. homosexuality). (3) A few people who post to this group believe that the entire Law applies to Christians, though I've never been sure what they mean, since as far as I can tell they don't actually keep the kosher laws. --clh]