Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Shroud of Turin Message-ID: Date: 14 Apr 91 00:44:35 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 38 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ok@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: there is another point which he didn't mention which ought to appeal to such people. One of the bigger disputes in church history in Western Europe was that between the iconoclasts (the people who wanted to smash "idols") and the iconodules (the people who saw nothing wrong with being respectful to and worshiping _through_ "images"). This clash preceded the Reformation by a century or so, and was one of the factors behind it. For the curious, the Iconoclast heresy was terminated by the 2nd council of Nicaea in the year 787. Here is an excerpt from the acta: ... We, continuing in the regal path, and following the divinely inspired teaching of our Holy Fathers, and the tradition of the Catholic Church, for we know that this is of the Holy Spirit who certainly dwells in it, define in all certitude and diligence that as the figure of the honored and life-giving Cross, so the venerable and holy images, the ones from tinted materials and from marble as those from other material, must be suitably placed in the holy churches of God, both on sacred vessels and vestments, and on the walls and on the altars, at home and on the streets, namely such images of our Lord Jesus Christ, God and Saviour, and of our undefiled lady, or holy Mother of God, and of the honorable angels, and, at the same time, of saints and holy men. For, how much more frequently through the imaginal formation they are seen, so much more quickly are those who contemplate these, raised to the memory and desire of the originals of these, to kiss and to render honorable adoration to them, not however, to grant true *latria* according to our faith, which is proper to divine nature alone; but just as to the figure of the revered and life-giving Cross and to the holy gospels, and to the other sacred monuments, let an oblation of incense and lights be made to give honor to these as was the pious custom with the ancients. "For the honor of hte image passes to the original" [St. Basil, De Spiritu Sancto 18:45] and he who shows reverence to the image, shows reverence to the substance of Him depicted in it, I think this is the last council recognized as ecumenical by the Catholics and Orthodox alike.