Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Adam and Eve have become as Gods? Message-ID: Date: 14 Apr 91 05:19:19 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Utah State University Lines: 189 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article sobarr@ucsd.edu (Carlos Saul Menem) writes: >Just a little question. On the TV today, and in several >books, and in several discussions with several different >religious groups, I here that Satans big lie to Eve was >that "in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be >opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" >(Gen3:5) But I find that in verse 22 it says, "And the >LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us >(gods) to know good and evil..." > >Is it true that some religions teach that that was one of >Satans lies told to Adam and Eve, or am I hard of hearing? >Has anyone else heard, read or taught this, and if so why? I hope you don't mind if I pick a fews nits. Satan hardly ever tells an outright lie at first. People are much more likely to accept a garbled version of the truth rather than a complete falsehood. In this case Satan told a truth: "ye shall be as gods, knowing good from evil," mixed with a lie: "Ye shall not surely die." The moderator responded (in part,) [My view of the situation is that the serpent told a [half-truth. God originally said then if they eat the [fruit, they will be doomed to die. There are two basic [problems that have been brought up in previous discussions. [One is that God said "in the day that you eat of it you [shall die", and of course that didn't happen. {... stuff deleted about different interpretations of the passage, which I have no problem with ... } I don't know if anyone has posted the point of view that I am about to express before so here's my $0.02 worth LDS scripture states that Abraham was given "to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God (Abraham 3:11). (See also Abraham 3.) Just to clarify a bit, Abraham was shone "all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." (Abraham 3:9.) So in a sense it may have been a limited vision of all of God's works. The point of all this is that the Lord says the one day to him is one thousand years to us. (Abraham 3:4.) So in that sense, when Adam died after having lived 930 years on earth, it was still during the first day since the fall according to the Lord's reckoning. So Adam did die in the day that he partook of the fruit. As far as this applies to the creation of the earth, this reckoning of 1000 earth years = 1 day of the Lord's time did not necessarily begin until the fall of Adam. Who knows (but God) how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden after the Creation but before the fall? LDS teach that there were six creative periods, and that each period was called a day. But by which reckoning no one knows. Maybe if the account were being written in today's vernacular It might be called "Phase I, Phase II, ..., and the Lord rested for a time which could have been called Phase VII." :-) [First, the consequences did happen -- they died. And [second, the knowledge they gained didn't help them. It [caused innocent sexual relations to turn into shameful ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [ones. --clh] I contend that Adam and Eve were innocent, like little children, and that thoughts of sexual relations do not enter the minds of little children. (BTW, I do NOT mean to imply the sexual relations are some how evil. IMHO, they are not.) If you were to ask Adam how he felt before the fall, he would truthful answer, "I don't know." Because he had no knowledge of sickness, pain, sorrow, etc. he could not know its opposite, namely health, happiness, etc.. 2 Nephi 2 is an excellent discourse on the Fall: 15 ... it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter. 16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by one or the other. 22 And now, behold if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. 23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. 24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things. 25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are that they might have joy. 26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given. (2 Nephi 2:15-16, 22-26.) 3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit-- 4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God. 5 For behold, if Adam had put forth his hand immediately, and partaken of the tree of life, he would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated. (Alma 42:3-5.) 9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I an the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will. 10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God. 11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. 12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters. 13 And Satan came among them, saying: I am also a son of God; and he commanded them saying, Believe it not; and they believed it not; and they loved Satan more than God. And men began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish. 16 And Adam and Eve, his wife, ceased not to call upon God. And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare Cain, .... (Moses 5:9-13,16.) One of Satan's biggest weapons is simply to say: "Believe it not." Just look at alt.atheism for the most current version of this. I think what I have quoted, taken as a whole, sufficiently illustrates my point. Modern revelation sure can be helpful in clarifying these kinds of things. Without it, we are left to our own speculations. -- Jason Hunsaker slhw4@cc.usu.edu P.S. Sorry about the bandwidth. [I should have been more careful in my language. By innocent sexual relations, I meant relations between the sexes in general, not just "sex". --clh]