Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!samsung!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!ece.arizona.edu!dan From: dan@ece.arizona.edu (Dan Filiberti) Newsgroups: comp.object Subject: Re: Software Engineering (was Re: Documenting OO Syst Message-ID: <1991Apr15.151016@ece.arizona.edu> Date: 15 Apr 91 22:10:16 GMT References: <3201:Apr705:40:4591@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> Reply-To: dan@ece.arizona.edu (Dan Filiberti) Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering Lines: 126 Nntp-Posting-Host: perseus.ece.arizona.edu In article <1991Apr15.205218.6914@visix.com>, amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) writes: |> In article jls@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim |> Showalter) writes: |> |> I'm a bit confused. Is it your belief that software engineers do NOT |> work on problems directly related to the real world? |> |> Precisely. Hardware engineers, or electrical engineers, and so on work |> on problems directly related to the real world. So-called "software |> engineers" work on problems with symbolic systems that may happen to model |> aspects of the real world, or may not. In fact, some of the most popular |> applications of computer technology (and some of the most in need of the |> techniques often called "software engineering") are problems that are quite |> explicitly *not* part of the real world: simulation and modelling, |> statistical and numerical analysis, user interfaces, Usenet... Uh, I don't think you live in the real world...people in the real world use user interfaces...people in the real world use numerical analysis and statistics...and electrical engineers use simulation and modelling...I can't think of anything more directly related to the real world than a user interface...maybe you don't live in the same world that I do... |> These are all purely symbolic. They involve manipulating symbols and |> information. |> |> I like engineering. Put simply, I like building stuff. Creating a piece |> of software, though, is a lot more like writing something than building |> something. You just have a real literal-minded audience :)... What? How can you compare literature with software...their purpose is completely different. Software is the bridge between hardware and the user, not a piece of poetry... |> I thought that |> satellites, dishwashers, dialysis machines, airplanes, telecommunications |> equipment, laptop computers, relational databases, finite element analysis |> models, and, well, actually, every OTHER thing I've seen software |> used for was part of the real world. |> |> What? You mean I can wash my dishes with software? Wow. What a |> concept. A relational database is part of the real world? I thought |> it was a symbolic framework for organizing information (which is about |> as abstract as it can get). I've seen *hardware* used in the real |> world, but not software. All I've ever seen software is manipulate |> symbols. Even low-level stuff like device drivers and barcode |> scanning software... I don't see your point...if software didn't exist, we'd still be back in the 60's waiting for hardware that could do something for people...without software, hardware is moot. Why do you think microprocessors use microcode? Because building the logic isn't feasible...software allows hardware to reach its highest potential, and without it hardware development would virtually stop. |> I think I'd ask them to solve some problems. Probably have them rig |> up an interface to some device, write some queries for a database, |> reverse engineer a design from some legacy code, etc etc etc. You |> know--do some software engineering. |> |> In most engineering disciplines, tests are done by testing knowledge, |> not by testing performance. What you describe sounds more like an |> exam in art, music, or writing (usually called a "practical" or |> "recital" exam). Hmm... I wonder how that could be? |> |> Think of it as the kind of thing lawyers have to do to pass the bar, |> or doctors have to do to become doctors. |> |> Are lawyers and doctors engineers? Wow, learn something new every day :). Well let me teach you something more...an engineer is someone who builds things for people...whether software, hardware, toys, dishwashers or whatever... I'm a computer engineer, and as such a design both hardware and software. These are just tools of the trade. As for the real world, it needs both hardware and software just as I do...whether their is such a thing as hardware engineering or software engineering, it doesn't matter. Ultimately, both are done by people for people, and are used by people...Thus, whether you build software or hardware, you are still engineering...:) Daniel Filiberti dan@ece.arizona.edu [:)} ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------- "If the world ended with a big-bang, I'd ride the waves to the edge of the universe, and fall flat on my face." +++ Big, bad, and ugly. +++ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------