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From: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Why I Am Not a Feminist
Summary: There is more to feminism
Message-ID: <1991Apr14.222759.13730@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: 18 Apr 91 17:43:43 GMT
References: <2805efd1.34d0@petunia.CalPoly.EDU>
Sender: ambar@ora.com (Jean Marie Diaz)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
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Approved: ambar@ora.com

I want to respond to parts of the "Why I am Not a feminist" posting
and add a copy of something I originally posted elsewhere about why
(as a man) I call myself a feminist.

 Albert Lunde              Albert_Lunde@nwu.edu

First some remarks in response:
 >I discovered one of my favorite anti-male feminist quotes [...]
 >       "[I]f the professional rapist is to be separated from the
 >         average dominant [male] heterosexual, it may be mainly a
 >         quantitative difference."
 >
 >Think about the implications of that one for a minute.  That the
 >difference between a heterosexual man and a rapist is only one of
 >degree.

This statement is shocking; it may also be true.  I believe the line
of argument supporting this is based on studies of men's attitudes.
They suggests that the idea of rapists as a distinct group of wackos
is misleading; that as men we need to examine our own socialization
for things which when pushed further can lead to rape.

 >The SCUM Manifesto was included in a collection of writings edited by
 >Robin Morgan called "Sisterhood is Powerful." 

Read the copyright date - "Sisterhood is Powerful." was one of the
first mass-market anthologies on feminism, and as such includes things
of lasting impact and things of only historical importance.  Robin
Morgan has kept on writing and her later work shows growth, change and
less dogmatic attitudes.

I would defend the body of either Robin Morgan's or Susan Griffin's
work by humanistic as well as feminist criteria.  (I've read several
books by both.)  They have written with a mix of poetry, ideology and
psychological insight that is far from some sort of one-dimensional
reverse-sexism.

 >But the final straw for me was when, in my Women's Studies class this
 >quarter, we were assigned as a reading an excerpt from Susan
 >Brownmiller's "Against Our Will." 

"Against our Will" was one of the first books to speak about the
subject of rape, and has been influential.  The quotes you cited sound
like a typical example of radical over-zealousness to me - raising one
form of oppression as the primary and original form of oppression.
Susan Brownmiller succeeds best at expressing women's anger; I don't
think she was trying to speak in a balanced "objective" voice.

No one person speaks for the feminist movement. It is diverse.  To
make change may well require a "good cop"/"bad cop" approach.

I would distinguish between women's anger at men's behavior and
socialization or women not wanting to spend time and energy on men
from women "hating men".

To spend time with the various parts of the feminist movement, it is
necessary to be able to tolerate women's anger, to be willing to be in
a minority and to respect women-only space.  I think this is an
acceptable price for hearing some of the things women have to say.

As some alternate reading I would suggest "Every Mother's Son" by
Judith Arcana, and "Reweaving The Web of Life" an anthology on
feminism and pacifism (this includes some anti-male material, but the
total range of material is instructive and a bit more up to date.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What follows was originally posted on a mailing list on bisexuality in
response to a thread about whether men could be feminists.

The original poster seemed angry about men calling themselves
feminists but not really having a clue what woman's life was like.  (I
regard this as a legitimate argument, but not as one having absolute
status.)  I see this as related because it explains my attraction to
feminism, some of my responses to the divisions within feminism and
its attitudes toward men.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:      Feminism, the ACLU and me
 
I like to think of myself as a feminist, and I will call myself one in
public. At the same time, I am acutely aware of the ideological
arguments against calling men feminists, and I don't expect everyone
to agree with this usage.
 
The reason I talk about myself this way is that my life has been
affected in so many ways by a collection of things including: "the
women's movement", the women's health movement, Lesbian-Feminism,
feminist theology, womyn's music and lesbian literature.  My
involvement started my second year of college:('72-'73), and continues
to the present. If it were not for all these aspects of feminism, I
would be a very different person today. I have internalized enough
from feminist ideology and culture that I respond to the subcultural
ideas, images and myths as much as to conventional stuff.
 
As I've said before: my participation in the women's community is
somewhat marginal because of my "anatomical deficiencies". I gradually
realized I could not, as a man, do anything to satisfy the most
extreme ideological "purity tests", so I'm not as hard on myself as I
once was.
 
Feminism covers a lot of ground in several dimensions. There are
ideological arguments that have been made by various feminists
against: lesbians; heterosexual women; bisexual women; transsexuals;
transvestites; pornography and (of course) men.
 
After this long, I try to keep things in perspective.  I don't regard
a list like this as central to the character of feminism.  I suspect
essentialism, generalizations and true-believership.  I appreciate a
sense of humor, and I think most feminists have (at least) one.
 
I think women's experience has a lot to say to everybody - and I wish
more people were listening.
 
I support anger/rage about the way men act; I agree that a lot of
oppressive structures still need to be changed; I think that feminism
has presented new alternate role models not only for women but for the
"generic" human being.  I agree it not worth spending time to change
some people. I support and try not to interfere with women-only
spaces.
 
I have problems with lines of argument that seriously suggest that all
men (or bisexuals or transsexuals...) are all alike and can never
change. I doubt that some essential "men's energy" or "women's energy"
exists, just as I disbelieve in "original sin".
 
I agree with the demands of feminism; I am not prepared to say: "All
men are *!@#, but I am the exception."  I know other men who take
feminism seriously and seem to have changed their lives as a result.
 
To close, I would like to put in a good word for the ACLU - I am a
"card-carrying member".  They have done a lot to advance feminism and
gay rights.  Of all the organizations I support, they cover the
broadest range of causes I agree with.  We need people like the ACLU
as well as demonstrators on the streets.
 
  Albert Lunde                                  Albert_Lunde@nwu.edu
  Gay / Bisexual / Feminist                     alunde@nuacvm.bitnet