Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!jlehmann From: jlehmann@wpi.WPI.EDU (Jonas A. Lehmann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc Subject: Re: AMIGA DEMOS: Europe VS. USA Keywords: demos Message-ID: <1991Apr23.192050.24176@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 23 Apr 91 19:20:50 GMT References: <20691@brahms.udel.edu> <1991Apr23.071311.46295@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> <1991Apr23.164302.6289@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 110 >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >his demos from 1985-1990. On the C64, there were many American teen >coders (in the hundreds). For instance the group I was in had 4 programmers, >all age 15-18. Personally, I have about 50 disks full of American >C64 demos. Yes, in the US you are branded a "nerd" for being smart, but >most of us didn't care, it was the competition and "fame" of writing >demos/intros that fueled our desire. The computer was a seperate world. >In fact, the Computer Underground is very much a totally different >world with different moral and social values. What stopped my coding, >was flunking the 12th grade and having to make classes up. I was >more enthusiastic about finishing a demo/intro than doing my term paper. >The Amiga is not as popular in the US as it is in Europe, but try looking >at the number of software done on the C64 and IBM by teens. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have seen some pretty well written American Demos as well for the C64. Although I dare to say that even on the C64, although a lot of Americans were coding, the europeans still did more. On nerd: I think ALL of us care when people throw negative words at us. Nerd just doesn't happen to be a nice word to be labeled with. However, some people (especially the smarter ones) know how to live with the ignorance of others and learn to live with the name. I must admit, I was never called NERD in German high school because I programmed ... but then I didnt spend ALL my time doing that .... but when I switched to the American International School in Zurich, I did hear that word once in a while. > No, more European teens don't choose to code compared to Americans. Perhaps >on the Amiga they do, but not on the C64/IBM. For instance, the sheer >number of cracking groups in Europe outnumber the US not because of >the # of programmers, but because the US crackers had better distribution. >In Europe (on the C64) most crack groups duplicated each others releases >because cracks were sent by mail(usually only one member of the group had >a modem, 300 baud usually, and the cracks had to be mailed to him for >uploading to the US). In America, mostly every member of the group had >a 1200/2400 baud modem, and every group had about 2-3 bbses where their >cracks could be downloaded from. Any duplicate releases were frowned >upon. New US crack groups would pop up every month but they could never >compete with the "big three" since the big groups had better connections and >usually got new software the very day it hit the shelves. Dispite this, >there were still hundreds of US coders (probably an underestimate) dating >all the way back to the C64's release. Also, DEMOS aren't the only >kind of coding you can do, there were literally tens of thousands of >other kinds of programs done, just check out QuantumLink. This BBSing really shocked me. I used to live in Switzerland until 3 years ago when I came here to study. People in Zurich used to meet in the local software stores to copy programs (even long before the titles were in the shop). Mailing was popular and BBSing was just too expensive, they said. This still allowed for titles to be hot for at least a few weeks. A one-two week old release, people were still bragging about. When I came to USA, I bought a modem since people told me that LOCAL PHONECALLS WERE FREE! WOW! I soon started to explore the local BBS scene. The few BBSs in Switzerland had been all PD or run by companies. Here, I would log on as a new user on most local BBSs and after a quick call-back by the sysop, I would be allowed to see all these commercial files. ?!?! I was shocked to some extent. I have now been here 3 years and know now that the pirate BBS system is very sophisticated here in USA. I have even heard rumors of international pirate email. But, just pick up a copy of some pirate PD diskmagazines and you will find tons of european BBS, especially in countries like Germany, Sweden and Holland. Things are changing and although the Americans clearly were far ahead in distribution due to their advancement in BBSing, I think the Europeans are catching up now. > There is nothing "awesome" about copper tricks and vectorballs. They are >easy once you shut the OS down. Multitasking on the Amiga is not slow, >graphics.library has just too much overhead. Eurocoders don't hit the >hardware because its faster, they do it because it's easier. How many >teens can afford to become a developer, purchase the autodocs, rkms, devcon >notes, and the AmigaDOS manual? Do you think those teens purchase >Devpac or Seka? I doubt most European or American teens could write >a program like AmigaVision, it's too much work. Most demo coding is done is >a week, usually less, with the majority of time taken up programming >tools you need and waiting for the graphics/music to get done. NOTHING AWESOME about copper tricks and vectorballs ... well ... I am sorry ... IT IS NOT trivial to code some of the stuff that new demos present. I think this is TOTALLY unfair and not giving any credit. I admit these features may be "hacks" but it just is not nice to give no credit. Some features of the new demos are just amazing and the fact that some of them have never been implemented before shows some sign of creativity and the ability to program the AMIGA not AMIGADOS and should definetly receive some respect. NOBODY is perfect. > >>-------------------------------------------------------------- >>Brian Wright >>wright%etsuvax2@ricevm1.rice.edu or wright@etsuvax2.bitnet >>-------------------------------------------------------------- > > One thing I am sick of in the US is the way intelligence and creativity >are put down. Why does being a "nerd" have bad connotations? If anything, >it should be encouraged. I wonder how it is in Europe and Japan? > Being called NERD aint nice in Europe either and I am sure in Japan it is the same thing. But I think in the US, you are faster categorized as a NERD than elsewhere. >-- >/ INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \ >| INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.| >\ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * / FLAMES - nah - Jonas - jlehmann@wpi.wpi.edu