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From: uunet!infmx!robert@ncar.UCAR.EDU (robert coleman)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Why I Am Not a Feminist
Message-ID: <1991Apr20.032821.18415@informix.com>
Date: 23 Apr 91 18:30:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: informix.1991Apr20.032821.18415
References: <2805efd1.34d0@petunia.CalPoly.EDU> <1991Apr14.222759.13730@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
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In article <1991Apr14.222759.13730@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:

> > (Dave Gross writes:)
> >I discovered one of my favorite anti-male feminist quotes [...]
> >       "[I]f the professional rapist is to be separated from the
> >         average dominant [male] heterosexual, it may be mainly a
> >         quantitative difference."

> >Think about the implications of that one for a minute.  That the
> >difference between a heterosexual man and a rapist is only one of
> >degree.

>This statement is shocking; it may also be true.  I believe the line
>of argument supporting this is based on studies of men's attitudes.
>They suggests that the idea of rapists as a distinct group of wackos
>is misleading; that as men we need to examine our own socialization
>for things which when pushed further can lead to rape.

The idea seems to be that both ordinary heterosexual men and rapists
want sex; it's just that the rapist wants it more.  That would be a
matter of degree.

However, that's absurd.  Normal heterosexual men want sex from willing
women, and probably couldn't even perform a sexual act with an
unwilling woman.  A rapist *wants* an unwilling woman, or doesn't care
what the woman wants.  This isn't a difference in degree, it's a
different mindset altogether.

(Also, I'm very curious; you state that men have a socialization that
makes it possible for them to rape when "pushed further", which
implies that it's not the rapist's fault; he was programmed by
society, then "pushed further" by some unnameable something.  Could
you specify just what will *push* an ordinary heterosexual male to
become a rapist?  Wouldn't it then be the "pusher's" fault?  Should we
view a rapist as a victim "pushed" into a crime, or as a being
responsible for their actions?)

> >But the final straw for me was when, in my Women's Studies class this
> >quarter, we were assigned as a reading an excerpt from Susan
> >Brownmiller's "Against Our Will." 

>Susan Brownmiller succeeds best at expressing women's anger; I don't
>think she was trying to speak in a balanced "objective" voice.

Unfortunately, her works aren't taught as a meaningless expression of
women's anger; her ideas are taught as if they had value and truth.

>No one person speaks for the feminist movement. It is diverse.  To
>make change may well require a "good cop"/"bad cop" approach.

Good cop/bad cop works only if the target is actually in the power of
the bad cop.  If someone were to be accosted by a "bad cop", and that
cop had no power over them, they would simply get angry and resentful,
perhaps even fight back.  Under the current social setup , all "bad
cop" feminists do is raise resistance to the good cops feminists.

BTW, do you approve of good cop/bad cop in real police situations?

Robert C.
-- 
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