Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gdsimpson@amherst.bitnet Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Is Christianity Christian? Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 91 05:27:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA. Lines: 105 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Does anybody know where the use of the name Sabaoth for Jehovah came from? And I also, where can one get a hold of non-Biblical information on the origins of Christianity and Judaism? I have heard that the Jews were originally polytheists but that when Yahwists priests gained political control, they effectively got rid of the worship of the other gods. I was also curious about the extent to which similar things happened in Christianity. From what I gather, there were many "heresies" and variants of Christianity around during the first Century. People had widely different interpretations concerning who Christ was and what his mission on Earth consisted of. Were certain heresies eliminated for political reasons? Is it conceivable that the "true" Christian doctrine would not be very popular (after all, the Bible calls it the narrow path) and would be suppressed while "false" doctrines would eventually be adopted by the mainstream? I really don't know but it does not seem that going to the Bible would be the best way to find out. Could anyone point me towards a good history of the early "heretics" in Christianity or Jewish polytheism? I would really appreciate it. thanks, -Gilberto Simpson "For the water will engulf us if we do not dare to tread" -De La Soul [The Jerusalem Bible footnote for 1 Sam 1:3 explains Yahweh Sabaoth as follows: "The interpretation 'Yahweh of hosts, armies, the battle-lines, etc' (be these the armies of Israel, or the armies of heaven, stars, angels and cosmic forces at large) is not certain. The title appears here for the first time and is connected with the cult at Shiloh; the expression 'Yahweh Sabaoth, whose throne is on the winged creatures' occurs for the first time at 4:4, in connection with the moving of the ark from Shiloh. The title remained associated with the ritual of the ark and passed into usage in Jerusalem, once the ark had been installed there. 2 S 6:2,18, 7:8,27. It occurs in the Ps. and was adopted by the major prophets (excluding Ezekiel) and by the post-exilic prophets (particularly Zechariah)." I don't think there is any non-Biblical information on the origins of Judaism, except archaelogical results. As far as I know evidence for the progress of monotheism in Israel is primarily Biblical. Certainly the Bible is very clear about the struggles involved in getting Israel to worship only the Lord. Consider all the stories in the historical books about kings who worshipped other gods, accounts of people like Elijah who fought with priests of other gods, etc. The polemics of the prophets also make it clear that plenty of people in Israel worshipped other gods. I don't know of any accounts from the other side remaining. Most of our ideas on this subject are conjecture, based on the Bible, with some archaeological evidence about religion of the period in general. As far as I know, it's not until we get to a period near that of the NT that we start finding documents left by heterodox groups. Of course by this time the issue was not worship of one God. While there were plenty of groups in Palestine that worshipped other gods, the Jews were strongly monotheistic. However there were a number of different ways of worship, opinions about eschatology, how to deal with the Romans, etc. With the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few other findings, scholars know at least something about the range of Judaism in that period. We have at least some evidence about heterdox Christian movements. E.g. the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library gives us a lot of information about the Gnostics, who appear to have been the major early heresy. We have histories of the church, letters, and other documents that provide reasonable evidence about later doctrinal disputes. The evidence isn't perfect, because often we don't have works written by the heretics, but simply extracts quoted by their opponents. But those provide some evidence, and now and then a work does survive. Most books on church history will give a summary of those controversies. For details on the Gnostics I recommend looking at "The Nag Hammadi Library", edited by James Robinson. This contains the texts of many of the documents, and introductions that give some context. A common reference is Pagels' book "The Gnostic Gospels", but I'm less enthusiastic. It's a polemical book. It concentrates more on condemning the orthodox church for persecuting the Gnostics than giving any actual information. I'm not sure what you mean by political. Certainly the Gnostics and the orthodox had very different ideas of authority in the Church. The orthodox valued continuity with the original apostles, and chose books that seemed to embody history passed down that way. The Gnostics valued creative vision, and did not have quite the drive to build strong hierarchical organizations. The differences thus involved many things, from the authority of the hierarchy to the reliability of historical traditions versus private visions. It's a matter of opinion which is true or false, though it seems if you want a historical account of Jesus, the orthodox church is the better place to look. Aside from information on the Gnostics, you might find "The NT Apocrypha", a 2 vol. set by Hennecke, interesting. It gives a sampling of non-Biblical documents, with scholarly discussions about them. It is from before the Nag Hammadi documents became available however. For information on Judaism before monotheism became standard, you'd want to consult a text on the history of Israel. Although I've read some I don't have any references handy. Sorry. --clh]