Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: parsons@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Parish) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: MANY will say, Lord, Lord Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 91 06:13:20 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Kansas State University Lines: 96 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I have deleted some portions of Mr. Johnson's original posting you may wish to reread his original posting to this group. ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) writes: > "Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the > kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father > Who is in the heavens. > Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in > Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do > many works of power? > And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from > Me, workers of lawlessness." > -- Matthew 7:21-23 >Although someone may have eternal life, he may still be rejected from the >kingdom of the heavens. I must beg to differ on this point, are you saying that eternal life and entering heaven are not synonomous? If they are not in fact the same, then you have just divided the afterlife into 3 divisions--heaven, hell, and somewhere where eternal life exsists, but is not heaven. I do not understand how I can have eternal life, and yet not live with Christ in heaven. >The persons in this verse all address the Lord as "Lord". The Lord will >make a distinction between those disciples who can enter into the kingdom >of the heavens and those who cannot. >The Lord clearly shows us here that the condition for entering the >kingdom of the heavens is doing the will of God. Although some have been >saved and have called Him Lord, and although they have have also done some >works, without doing the will of God they nevertheless cannot enter into >the kingdom of the heavens. The reward of the kingdom of the heavens is >based on the obedience of man. If one is not faithful while living on the >earth, though he will not loose eternal life, he will loose the kingdom of >the heavens. When the time comes for the heavens to rule, that is, when the >Lord Jesus comes the second time, some will not be able to enter the >kingdom, but will lose it instead. This is second point I must comment on. I really think you should look back to Matthew 7:15-20, which gives some context as to what Christ was talking about. In verse 15 Christ says, 'Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.' Could Christ be including these and all other self-righteous persons in verse 21? Re-read verse 21, it says 'Not everyone' not 'Not every SAVED person' If you read this verse in the context in which I speak you would see that Christ is speaking of people who profess to know him. These are the kind of people who say 'Jesus, oh yeah, I believe.' But they never 'walk the walk' or 'talk the talk'. He speaks of the self righteous, those who say 'I am good, therefore God will be good to me.' >Amazingly, the Lord tells them, "And then I will declare to them: I never >knew you." Because many do not understand the meaning of these words, they >think that these surely are not saved ones. But if these are not saved >ones, then the Lord's word here would be meaningless. There are 4 places (there may be others, I just glanced around) where this phrase of denial is uttered by Christ: Matt 7:23, Matt 25:12, Luke 13:25 and again in verse 26. In Matt 25:1-13, Christ tells the Parable of the Ten Virgins. In Luke 13:23-30, a disciple asks the Lord, 'Are there few that be saved?' And the Christ gives a little speach about the master of the house shutting the door of the house and having people beat on it to get in, but are refused entrance. Anyway, my point being, that Christ is saying that these people THINK they are saved. These people THINK they have a right to enter into the wedding supper, because the PROFESSED to be part of the wedding company. But in fact they did not practice what they professed. In the case of the foolish virgins, they were not prepared with oil in their lamps when the bridegroom came. In Luke the people knocking at the door were depending on the Master of the house's good memory of them. Either case illustrates why people think should be granted entrance to the Kingdom, but fall short. These are the same people who say 'I lived a good life. I'll go to heaven, because God likes people who lived good lives.' >"Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." Please remember that the Lord >did not tell them to depart from eternal life. No, He did not explicitly say depart from eternal life, but through the othere parables where this same phrase is uttered, you can pretty much figure out there is no part of heaven open to these people. And as far as I can tell the possiblilty of eternal life with Christ. >The Bible shows us clearly that after a person believes in the Lord, >though he will never lose eternal life, he may lose his place >and glory in the kingdom. Again, show me how eternal life and the Kingdom of God are not in someway synonymous. >----- >Robert W. Johnson --Scott Parish parsons@matt.ksu.ksu.edu