Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!wuarchive!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!data.nas.nasa.gov!news
From: mva@prefect.bellcore.com (Madhav Apte)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Question for Zen Sitters
Message-ID: <1991Apr19.060737.4906@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 19 Apr 91 06:07:37 GMT
Sender: news@nas.nasa.gov
Reply-To: mva@maestro.bellcore.com (Madhav Apte)
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Lines: 37
Approved: prabhu@amelia.nas.nasa.gov

Hi Folks	

	what's going on?  Is it my site or noone has posted here
	for a few weeks?  Maybe with the departure of Keith Evans
	no one has any controversial stuff to talk about, eh?

	Well, here's a mostly serious (but maybe slightly tongue-in-cheek)
	question.  You've all heard the zen quote/koan that goes
	"when hungry, eat; when tired, sleep", right?

	Well, if I go to a zen monastery for a retreat or a sesshin,
	what happens?  When I am hungry, I cannot eat.  When I am
	sleepy, I cannot sleep.  To make things worse, I have to eat	
	when I may not be hungry, and sleep when I may not be sleepy
	(well, more like - get up when I may not want to).

	So, is this not a contradiction?  I know what you are thinking.
	Already, you have some answers.  Well, I can think of some
	sleaze-outs myself (below).  But I am interested in what
	you think.

	My "out":
	- It would be great if one could sleep when sleepy and eat when
	hungry : but since most of us are not truly aware of ourselves,
	we let our egos/desiring minds take over;  we eat/sleep
	indiscriminately.  So FIRST we have to develop the kind of
	discrimination that allows us to KNOW when we are truly
	hungry/sleepy and develop the discipline that forces us
	to eat/sleep at those times.  What's more, with that kind
	of discipline, our body soon gets hungry, oh - only about
	3 times a day, say morning, noon and evening.  And we sleep
	mostly from 10 pm to 5 am.  So you use the retreat/sesshin
	to GET to this stage - hence you have to follow a schedule
	that initially may not suit you. 
 
	- Madhav
	mva@maestro.cc.bellcore.com