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From: manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Few questions/observations about the A3000
Message-ID: <886.281707cf@vger.nsu.edu>
Date: 25 Apr 91 20:46:07 GMT
References: <1991Apr22.184252.10274@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1991Apr23.143421.17738@javelin.sim.es.com> <1991Apr24.172714.462@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>
Lines: 87

In article <1991Apr24.172714.462@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, pochron@cat52.cs.wisc.edu (David Pochron) writes:
> In article <1991Apr23.143421.17738@javelin.sim.es.com> blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
>>No disadvantages that I can see, except you give up 512K of RAM to the
>>Kickstart image that's loaded from disk. The advantages to the current
>>setup is you can upgrade the OS from a floppy, without having to open
>>the case. Since RAM is cheap, and RAM is faster than ROM, I plan to stay
>>with the disk-based Kickstart myself.
> 
> Unless I am mistaken, I don't think Commodore will be releasing a disk-based
> final version of Kickstart this time around.  Considering the only machines
> that *need* a disk based version of KS are the 1000's, and CBM has yet to give
> the green light for 2.0 support on it, (that is, though it is possible (now
> even) for 2.0 to run on the 1000's, CBM has to officially "sanction" it) I
> wouldn't hold my breath for a disk-based version of KS, except for any further
> pre-releases.  (You could use them, if you don't mind using slightly buggy,
> gamma versions.)

They will have to release a disk based version of Kickstart to developers.
The whole idea of the beta test process is to test the OS that is going 
to be put into ROM.   I don't think the testing process would work real 
well if Commodore said "Ok beta testers, thats it, we are going to change 
a few things and then put it in ROM".   So there will be a disk based version
of the ROM that is sent for duplication.

Now perhaps what you mean is that Commodore may not release to the masses
a disk based kickstart.  That remains to be seen.  In a way I would like
to see Commodore do this, and in another way, I would not.

I would like a disk based kicstart released for the A3000, but my fear
would be that the software manufactures may "wimp" and say our software
uses 1.3, as it is the most used OS for the Amiga.  

It would remind me all too well of the C-128 days.  

> 
> Furthermore, unless you have a pre-3000 Amiga with a faster CPU & 32 bit RAM,
> there is no speed difference between running KS in ROM and running KS in RAM!
> (I thought this was all discussed in c.s.a.h several months ago about ROM vs
> RAM...)
> 
> Also, it is highly unlikely that CBM will continue to release KS 2.0
> upgrades on disk after the ROM's are out.  If any changes are made, they will
> be done through SetPatch.

That is probably true. However setpatch can work for a disk based version
of kickstart as well as a ROM based one.


> 
> I hope I am not sounding too harsh, but I just don't see any advantage to using
> up 512K of precious RAM on the 3000's, + HD space, (or waiting for KS to load
> from floppy, (arg!)) just to have KS in RAM when there won't be any need to.
> (And again, any disk-based version is bound to not be as up-to-date as the
> final ROM version will be.)

I can see the advantage _if_ you are a developer.  Otherwise I would agree
with you.  I am thankful that the A3000 once again knows how to soft load
a Kickstart.  I _hope_ that the 2.0 rom will still allow the soft loading
mechanism to work.  If it doesn't then I don't intend to put a 2.0 rom
in my A3000.  I will put one in the A2000 though.

I understood the marketing reasons as to why kickstart had to go to ROM
for the A500/A2000.  In _my_ opinion, one of the things I really missed
was the flexibility of the kickstart design.  It is too bad the market-
place is too stupid to appreciate it.

My VAX has a write control store... why can't my Amiga keep it?? ;-)

> 
> 
> 
>>Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108
>>blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com                               BIX: blaine_g
>>DoD #46           My other motorcycle is a Quadracer.            FJ1200
> 
>           David M. Pochron   | Transparent DWV pipe:  For the man who wants to
>                              |                        see it all...
> pochron@garfield.cs.wisc.edu | (If you don't know what DWV is, get a life! :-)

 -mark=
     
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 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   manes@vger.nsu.edu                                        
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