Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-se!PRICE@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu From: price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: System 7.0 and Free Manuals Message-ID: <00947CD7.132B6140@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu> Date: 28 Apr 91 18:46:13 GMT References: <1991Apr27.030039.20417@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1991Apr27.043528.27235@cbnewsk.att.com> <1991Apr28.092559.4307@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>,<1991Apr28.165207.18209@swbatl.sbc.com> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Reply-To: price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) Distribution: comp Organization: UCLA Particle Physics Research Group Lines: 78 In article <1991Apr28.165207.18209@swbatl.sbc.com>, george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: >In article <1991Apr28.092559.4307@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> umh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >Ned Horvath's (ehorvath@attmail.com) comments removed for brevity that got >the following response from Maynard Handley (umh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu). >>This is a totally unwarranted flame. >No it isn't. Ned brings up some valid points. >>1) What is this mythical bandwidth being burned up by 9.5 Meg? The phone lifes >>for the internet exist and are dedicated full time- they are going to have to >>be replaced faster if they get used more. >Obviously you don't understand some of the structure of the internet. Some >links *WILL NOT* be replaced or upgraded just because they are used more. Well, actually, in a university environment, this is *exactly* why they get replaced or upgraded. Many (I would say most, but I don't have the stats to back it up) of us get our money from the government via grants and such, and those grants have the bizarre property that they go away if you don't use them. If you *do* use them, you get more. Go figure. This doesn't mean that I condone people wasting those resources to do things like downloading system manuals (IMHO a *criminal* waste of resources and time); I just wanted to clarify the situation. Businesses, of course, operate with real money, and such waste is probably (again, I don't have the stats) not as prevalent. >Assuming 9.5 Meg is accurate. Do you really think it is fair and honest to >be tying up that much of a resource on a educational or business machine unless >you can justify it? Most students (a significant percentage of the people reading this group, I'll bet) don't think that way. For all students reading, this is *NOT* a flame; the fact is, though, that students in universities are not usually trained to consider economical usage of finite resources. That's not really their fault - unless you become a serious CS student, you usually never hear about how to use computer resources effectively (i.e., how to fit your program into X bytes). As far as economical resources, most students who use computers are *never* taught to conserve. Some rules are enforced, perhaps, like charging for each printed page, but usually the charge comes out of some funny-money account set up for the student. Also, there aren't any lay books about this topic - after all, it really isn't all that interesting. So, unless someone hits you in the face with it (as often happens in the business world), you're not likely to learn how to conserve resources. >Or do you subscribe to the theory of "If you use up all >the disk space, they'll have to buy more."? Or how about the length of time >you might be spending on a dial-up downloading 9.5 Meg to your system. Someone >might really need that link. Oh! Wait a minute! If we tie up the phone lines, >they'll have to buy more!!! Yeah. Right. "They" must have some pretty deep >pockets. Again, this is how the system really works in a university environment. Waste is rewarded, since "they" assume that all the money you're spending is justifiable. Part of the problem is that the people actually spending the money aren't familiar with the systems they're buying. They must take the recommendations of those who use the systems, who don't think in terms of finite resources. I know this from personal experience - while learning about system management for a VAX, I discovered that I had to get by on less money than I "wanted". It was a valuable experience that I've tried to "port" to my Mac. >In short, putting up System 7 manuals (as they now exist) is a waste of >resources. Distributing the printed manuals makes the most sense for everybody. Lest anyone was misled by my previous comments, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Price | Internet: price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu 5-145 Knudsen Hall | BITNET: price@uclaph UCLA Dept. of Physics | SPAN: uclapp::price Los Angeles, CA 90024-1547 | YellNet: 213-825-2259 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there is no solution, there is no problem.