Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!noc.MR.NET!gacvx2.gac.edu!gacvx2.gac.edu!scott From: scott@texnext.gac.edu (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: (Ne)X(T) Terminals---a hot product idea? Message-ID: Date: 27 Apr 91 15:48:20 GMT References: <1991Apr25.084827.1475@math.ucla.edu> Distribution: na Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College Lines: 123 Nntp-Posting-Host: texnext.gac.edu In-reply-to: barry@pico.math.ucla.edu's message of 25 Apr 91 08:48:27 GMTLines: 123 In article <1991Apr25.084827.1475@math.ucla.edu> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: Here's an idea: given the popularity of X Terminals, could there be a market for ``NeXT Terminals''? At one time, I thought this would be a killer idea, too. The problem is, I don't see what would go: We all agree that NeXT should not lower the quality of its computers simply to produce a box they can sell for $2000. BUT---what if they make something that has _no pretense_ of being a computer, but rather just a smart NeXTStep display meant to run off a server over a network? Many people would argue that a NextStation 105M w/16M memory makes no pretense of being a computer! It certainly was meant to run off a server over a network, which was why NeXT advised against buying it standalone. The cost reduction over a Slab would be big---no need for disk drives, 8MB RAM or 68040 (leave in the microphone, though!)---that cuts about $1000 off production costs already (and most of the eliminated stuff is not NeXT produced anyway.) I'd still want a disk drive. Makes it much easier to do software updates - remember that NextStep1.0 couldn't do -NXHost to a 2.0 system, so those would be needed even in the windowserver. 8MB RAM is still going to be a plus. The main reason people should have 16M on a NeXT is because DPS takes up alot of RAM! Right now, I've not got much running on my NextStation (Stuart, Edit, Background, IconBounce), so there shouldn't be too many windows, right? The RSIZE of windowserver from ps aux reports 2.74M, the VSIZE 20.0M. So more RAM would be a plus. Besides, RAM is getting cheaper as we speak . . . I guess I agree that the '040 could go, though - an '030 would be adaquate to the task of handling DPS without anything else. Well, almost - I'd still rather have an '040 :-). And if they can get the quantity, there really wouldn't be alot of savings. I bet they could sell the monochrome NeXT Terminal for $1500 ($999 educational price) and a color one for $2500 ($1999 educational). This would certainly provide a low cost ``color solution'' for many users that want color. :-). Considering that their monitors cost something like $3000 for color . . . :-). But, If you were to add on about $500 to the mono prices, yeah, maybe. Honestly, though, I think it would be tough to do. (1) medium--large networks for low-power users; for e.g., office settings and educational computer labs, where the goal is to give as much access as possible, but the typical user does not require too many resources. A few loaded servers and a lot of NeXT Terminals would be great, and the low entry price would get the NeXTs in the door. (They'll want more, once they've had a taste!) The NextStation 105M w/16M as a network client (mounts 2.0-extended from the server, along with the user accounts) is just about right for this. Personally, since working on my standalone machine, I find it glacially slow, but if the lab was filled with them, I'd be happy (right now they're all '030s w/40M accelerator). Think of how they'll look in a year or two - any sort of terminal will have to be faster than the NextStation 105M, or no one will be impressed. (2) a home machine for people with a NeXT at work; if your server has SLip or PPP, a NeXT Terminal at home plus a 9600 baud modem would be a great way to stretch one NeXT computer to other locations. Maybe even have a printer port so that the Terminal could fork stuff to a local printer. For < $3000 you could get most of the benefit of the NeXT GUI and laserprinter at home. (Actually, its much in the spirit of the NeXT Printer---they put all its power in the remote host computerto cut costs; why not do the same with the display.) This would be neat. One argument is that DPS would run slowly over that type of thing - I think that that can be handled. The current DPS communications path is optimized for speed, not space. This means that a well-placed filter on each end of the line could compress the _heck_ out of the data coming across. Which would be good, methinks. Also, why stop at 9600 baud? By the end of the year, 9600 baud modems with MNP5 (or even V.42bis) will be fairly cheap. Comparing $500 with $100 is easy, when the $500 solution works fast enough for you and the $100 doesn't. I know universities would immediately load up on undergraduate NeXT Labs if the cost were ~ $1000 per seat (+ a tiny fraction of the server). And this could solve the low cost color problem as well--- Businesses would love it too---even the secretaries could have NeXTs. As it is, its often overkill to load up Slabs/Cubes for everyone---many users just won't need all the power under the hood. All they really need is the great interface and access to the great software---so why not offer them that as the entry level. That should further explode the professional user base, and knowing NeXT, I bet they could get them out the door within a year. Again, if they got them out the door within the year, they would have to be at least as powerful as a NextStation 105M to be worth it. By that time, I would think NeXT would have already gotten out faster machines cheaper, or at least announced it. So, why not just use the NextStation 105M as a NextStep terminal? It would be fast enough, that's for sure. By next year, it will be stable enough. They've already got a case and all (though it'd be fun to pop it into the monitor itself :-). Just use a 40M or 50M hard drive instead of 105M, and you're almost all the way there. Might as well use 16M (consider that 4 4M simms will more than likely be <$400, probably under $300 by then), and you've got a machine I'd love to hang off of anything else . . . Then again - port DPS/NextStep extensions to DPS to the i386/i486, and you've got a huge field of ready NextStep terminal just waiting to be used . . . sell millions of copies of the front-end "os" to allow them to work right, cheap . . . paint it black if needed (maybe sell a kit for that) . . . Later, -- scott hess scott@gac.edu Independent NeXT Developer GAC Undergrad "Simply press Control-right-Shift while click-dragging the mouse . . ." "I smoke the nose Lucifer . . . Banana, banana."