Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Johann) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The missing body/Empty tomb Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 91 02:54:20 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Society for the prevention of cruelty to the male race. Lines: 85 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: > The work "In the Light of Truth", the Grail Message, by Abd-ru-shin does in > fact give logical answers about this critical point. > > It explains that the Laws of Creation, which also manifest as the physical > laws, or laws of nature, are necessarily perfect, having issued forth from > the Perfect GOD. Your concept concerning the laws of nature is quite interesting. I will concede that the laws of nature were created by God. > Think about it now: that which is perfect cannot be subject to change, or > else it could not have been *perfect* from the beginning! > Therefore, we are compelled to accept the conclusion that it was, is, and > always shall be IMPOSSIBLE for a PHYSICAL body to ascend into the SPIRITUAL > kingdom or realm. Simply impossible, otherwise there is no perfection in the > simple clear natural laws of Creation. Interesting... Why, however, is it not possible for God to break his own rules? I cannot sit here and say that because God has created something he has no right to alter it as he sees fit. Who says that it is impossible for a a physical body to enter into heaven? God created heaven, God created the body and God created the rules governing both. God can do whatever he wants. There have been stories of people entering heaven without passing through death. (See Elijah (II Kings 2:11) and Enoch (Genesis 5:24)) > And to argue that "With God all things are possible" is to distort and > misuse this wonderful wisdom, since in the trivial sense many things ARE > impossible for God, such as evil, imperfection, etc. And for God to act > against His own Will, His own perfect laws, would show an imperfection, i.e., > the need for a change or an interruption in the working of these laws. Why is this? I usually avoid strong philosophical discussions, but I see this as being very important. By definition, we know that God is omnipotent. He can do whatever he wants. He has free will. God says that he will not change his will, but that does not imply that he doesn't have the right to do so if he so desired. I think that saying "With God all things are possible" is the most relevant thing that could be said in this situation. If God (for whatever reason) chose to break one of the laws he had created, how could we call this imperfection? To a Christian, our definition of perfection IS God. Whatever God does is inherently perfect. It is not our place to bring God's acts into question and say, if God did so and so we would have to say he was imperfect. For example, look at the case of Job. By HUMAN standards, heaping punishments on Job even though he was a righteous man in order to prove to Satan that he would not curse God is a very unfair thing to do. HOWEVER, as God so strongly points out, who are we to question his actions? He cannot be measured by human standards. (See Job 38-end) Whatever God wants to do, he can do. The fact that we cannot understand the action is irrelevant. "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart." (I Corinthians 1:19) > Yes, Jesus WAS seen by many following His death on the cross, but it was > NOT the physical body of Jesus which was seen. It was His spiritual body, > or better said, His soul, which naturally at that time still manifested > the wounds that He had so recently been forced to suffer. It was given > to those close to Jesus to be able to see and hear that which normally they > would not see and hear for the sake of strengthening their faith in Jesus > and the truth of His Message. I disagree. Our Lord specifically says after his appearance, "Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See me hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39 RSV) The same passage claims that the savior took a piece of fish and ate it in front of the disciples. Yet, Revelation 7:16 clearly states that in our heavenly forms we "shall hunger no more". How do you reconcile the two? > This is the reason that those who had been close to Jesus did not immediately > recognize Him. It is also the reason He was able to enter into a locked room. > As for the physical body of Jesus, one would have to assume then that it was > in fact taken from the tomb, by persons unknown and for reasons unknown, but > I expect that in the future this too shall be made clear. I expect that at the rapture, everything will be made clear. Looking forward to that day... :-) > I hope these explanation will prove helpful to serious questioners. > Mark Sandrock -Jon Anderson