Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!corton!inria!seti!nuri!ziane From: ziane@nuri.inria.fr (ziane mikal @) Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: Conciousness Message-ID: <2133@seti.inria.fr> Date: 2 May 91 10:13:40 GMT Article-I.D.: seti.2133 References: <2124@seti.inria.fr> <11611@uwm.edu> Sender: news@seti.inria.fr Organization: INRIA Rocquencourt,Le Chesnay, France. Lines: 36 In message <11611@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >Consciousness pervades everything even "inanimate" objects like machines. >What makes us different from objects is only that we have sufficient >intelligence and self-awareness to see that part that pervades us. >A neurocomputer that becomes intelligent will not suddenly become conscious. >It always was. What it WILL suddenly become is AWARE of that fact... >So it's not whether it experiences pain or not, it's whether it knows it's >experiencing pain or not. Pain won't even bother me, a fully cognizant and >intelligent being, if I don't know it's there (like when under anaesthesia). >There's only one consciousness, that's why we all only experience one... Interesting, although it is not very clear. I had presupposed that being conscious implies kwowing that we are conscious. But then, what is consciousness if you don't know that you are conscious (I almost said "if you are not conscious that you are conscious") ? By the way, is a stone conscious according to you, and how ? Your concept of consciousness that "pervades" everything seems a bit too "magic" to me. I was expecting something more concrete. To me, consciousness is not as problematic as pain. An intelligent computer with a complex enough self-spying mechanism may well be conscious. I would not surprise me. On the other hand, pain is another problem. I don't know what is necessary for a computer to feel pain. I have already pointed out that pain should not be confused with the fact that it is a means to control organisms behavior. It don't understand what you mean by experiencing pain while you don't know there is pain. Mikal (Mikal.Ziane@nuri.inria.fr)