Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!apple!fernwood!uupsi!njin!paul.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: The demons Message-ID: Date: 3 May 91 06:46:05 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 106 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu This post concerns the demons. The demons appear in many references in the four gospels and the epistles (some versions of the Bible use devils rather than demons). Paul says concerning the religions of the nations (my little concordance is too small to include the reference): They of the Gentiles, they worship demons. Now what are they, and where did they come from? Let us start by examining Genesis 1:1-2. 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep ... These verses tell us that God created the heavens and the earth, and that the earth was a total shambles. But, Job 38:4, 7 says: 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? The sons of God are the angels, which must have been created by God before he laid the foundations of the earth. But what else does verse 7 tell us? that the angels shouted for joy when God created the earth. Does it make any sense whatsoever that the angels should be shouting over a "without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep"? Not likely. God must have created a beautiful earth, with some kind of very intelligent creatures. Why do I say this? just keep on reading. When did Satan fall? Most likely between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. A third of the nagels followed him in his fall. Most likely he corrupted the creatures that lived on the earth at its creation, and they followed him. God, in judgment, more than likely devulged the world with water, as he did in the time of Noah. Thus, "darkness was on the face of the deep." The disimbodied spirits of these original creatures are the demons. Why are they so bad, because they followed Satan, and God had to judge. Bible scolars know, from calculating the years recorded in the Bible, that Adam was created about 6,000 years ago. Yet, EVEN SCIENCE tells us that there was some kind of creature long before then. The problem is, that science does not have revelation in the Scriptures and has concluded that the only possible source of scientific evidence that they have found must mean that man is a descendant of the apes. They have the evidence, they just have no revelation. Now i don't hae time to go through the four Gospels and prove to you that these disebodied spirits, the demons, seek a body or they seek water. Why water, because this is the prison that God has imprisoned them in. God judged them by flood, as in the time of Noah, and imprisoned them there. that is why "darkness was upon the face of the DEEP." If you missed it, "DEEP." i have more proof. let us look at the Great White Throne judgment of God in Revelation chapter 20. Anybody that knows anything about the Bible knows that this judgment is after the millenium, the 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth, and is the judgment of the unbelievers (the Christians all having been judged at the end of the current age--the Age of the Gentiles--and before the millenium begins). Revelation 20:12-13 says: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the SEA gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delievered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Verse 13 is very important. it says that "the SEA gave up the dead which were in it." Which dead are in the SEA???? some may say, well those men that died at sea. But this makes absolutely no sense. Anyone with any knowledge of the Scriptures knows that the dead are kept in Hades; there being the bad part and there being Paradise (Luke 16:19-31; 23:43), the two portions of hades. (Now i know some of you believe that Christians all go to heaven, but I would like you to prove it to me from the Scriptures. If you look at Revelation chapter 4, the first ever view of heaven, you will not find a single Christian. it is only after the first rapture, when the overcoming Christians living at the end of this age are called up yonder to cast satan out of heaven (yes, Satan is there--see Job and remember that he sits in front of God accusing us day and night), that Revelation records any Christians being there.) So who are these dead that the sea gives up???? They must be the demons. Who else could they be???? Note also that verse 13 specifically states that "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in it." These of course are the unbelievers. Now if you don't believe me concerning where the demons come from and who they are then SCRIPTURALLY show me. MAKE SURE THAT IT IS SCRIPTURAL, people's undocumented opinions count as 0000. ----- Robert W. Johnson Computer center, The University of Turku, Turku Finland robert@kontu.utu.fi (InterNet) robert@firien.bitnet (BITNET) The preceeding is my opinion and may not express the opinion of my employer and furthermore has nothing to do with my employment. [The closest I can find to your initial reference is I Cor 10:20: ".. what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God" But that is speaking of specific pagan sacrifices. Paul is unlikely to make a blanket claim that all Gentiles worship demons, since in Rom 2:14ff we see that he believes that some of them worship God in their hearts. Indeed 1st Cent. Judaism as a whole had the concept of righteous Gentiles, who also had a place in the world to come. Perhaps you meant something more specific than Gentile, since after all almost all of us are Gentiles... --clh]