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From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT software size
Message-ID: <4d7Gypu=1@cs.psu.edu>
Date: 4 May 91 11:05:15 GMT
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In-Reply-To: undrground!accangel@amix.commodore.com's message of 3 May 91 20:33:02 GMT
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(Mark Gardner) writes:

   You know, I am getting DAMN sick of your snide little comments that the 
   only quality Amiga software is represented by games.  But I'll let that 
   go.

Well, most people don't buy the Amiga for the DTP packages,
spreadsheets, word processors, or database managers.

   And so....
   ****  FLAME ON  ****
   Amiga users, strangely enough, APPRECIATE tight code.  1 1/2 megabytes 
   for one program is a bit steep, to put it mildly.  Does that fancy 
   Objective C compiler you keep harping about do ANY code optimization 
   whatsoever?  Or is most of that space taken up by buttons and sliders 
   created with the wonderful NeXT interface builder, which has to draw ALL 
   the graphic elements in Display Postscript?  What the heck does Lotus 
   Improv do, anyway?

Actually, I think the symbol table is included in there too.
Objective C includes it so that it can do dynamic binding.  The
software would even be larger by dynamic libraries are used.  Yes, I
know the Amiga has them too.

   Y'see, if I really like a program, use it a lot, etc., I put it on my 
   hard drive.  No problem.  If I only use it once or twice, I'd like to be 
   able to keep it and its associated files on one or two floppy disks.  
   HOWEVER, your fine example of bloated and overweight code would need a 
   bloody SHOEHORN to squeeze onto a high-density floppy, and leave no room 
   for a user's documents, macros, batch files, whatever.  This is a program 
   which I would not consider buying unless I really, REALLY needed it.  So 
   please, take your overinflated program (dare I say overinflated ego, 
   too?) and talk about portability somewhere else.  Improv sounds about as 
   portable as a sperm whale.
   ****  FLAME OFF  ****

   In closing, I must say that these NeXTwars here are dragging on a little 
   too much.  Don't you guys have your own newsgroups?

I'm just responding to the posts my by Amiga users.  When you guys ask
how large is NeXT software, and scream we don't want a program if it's
too large, what am I suppose to say?  Yes, the Objective C software is
a little larger, not because the compiler doesn't optimize(it's GCC),
but because the language generates more code and data.

The NeXT is a workstation.  Most things are an order of magnitude
larger.  The RAM used and needed, the disk space, the speed(not and
order of magnitude, but faster).  You're arguments about the size of
the program are stupid.  The software performs well on the NeXT and
that's what matters.  The guy I responded to thought that it was
better not to have the software than have software that took up too
much disk space.  Well, he is wrong.  Even if Improv(pick favorite
program) was 5 times as large, it is better to have it than not have
it.

-Mike