Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!undrground!accangel
From: undrground!accangel@amix.commodore.com (Mark Gardner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT software size
Message-ID: <ZHyF21w164w@undrground.UUCP>
Date: 4 May 91 21:21:10 GMT
References: <4d7Gypu=1@cs.psu.edu>
Lines: 75

melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:

> 
> (Mark Gardner) writes:
> 
>    You know, I am getting DAMN sick of your snide little comments that the 
>    only quality Amiga software is represented by games.  But I'll let that 
>    go.
> 
> Well, most people don't buy the Amiga for the DTP packages,
> spreadsheets, word processors, or database managers.
 
Wrong.  I bought my A500 for word processing, DTP, and graphics work.  
Please don't make unqualified statements like the above without first 
checking out some of the software.  Specifically, PageStream v2.1 
(Soft-Logik), MaxiPlan (Oxxi), ProWrite v3.0 (New Horizons), and 
SuperBase 4 (Progressive Peripherals & Software).
 
The games ARE good, too - my pick of the moment is Shadow of the Beast
II by Psygnosis.
 
[ flame deleted about code size ]
> Actually, I think the symbol table is included in there too.
> Objective C includes it so that it can do dynamic binding.  The
> software would even be larger by dynamic libraries are used.  Yes, I

Point of fact: the Amiga's libraries are either in the KickStart ROM or 
on disk as separate files.  Only one copy need exist on disk/in memory.  
Are you telling me that every program compiled on the next has to have 
the system libraries linked to the executable file?  That's just plain 
WASTEFUL.

> know the Amiga has them too.
 
[ rest of flame deleted ]
>    In closing, I must say that these NeXTwars here are dragging on a little 
>    too much.  Don't you guys have your own newsgroups?
> 
> I'm just responding to the posts my by Amiga users.  When you guys ask
> how large is NeXT software, and scream we don't want a program if it's
> too large, what am I suppose to say?  Yes, the Objective C software is
> a little larger, not because the compiler doesn't optimize(it's GCC),
> but because the language generates more code and data.
> 
> The NeXT is a workstation.  Most things are an order of magnitude
> larger.  The RAM used and needed, the disk space, the speed(not and
> order of magnitude, but faster).  You're arguments about the size of
> the program are stupid.  The software performs well on the NeXT and
> that's what matters.  The guy I responded to thought that it was
> better not to have the software than have software that took up too
> much disk space.  Well, he is wrong.  Even if Improv(pick favorite
> program) was 5 times as large, it is better to have it than not have
> it.
 
The NeXT is a workstaton, fine.  So please, stop trying to sell it to 
folks who use their systems as personal computers (probably the majority 
of Amiga users) all the way up to workstations (the A3000/A3000T/A3000UX, 
as well as the souped-up A2000/2500 owners).

And BTW, this is the first time I have ever heard the argument that 
program size is not a factor to consider when purchasing software.
 
 -MG "In retrospect, we should probably thank Steve Jobs.  Otherwise,
c.s.a.advocacy would be dead and silent.  So, kudos for the Mac and 
NeXT!"
 
> 
> -Mike


----------
Mark Gardner

UUCP: uunet!cbmvax!amix!undrground!accangel
Internet: undrground!accangel@amix.commodore.com