Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!samsung!olivea!oliveb!amdahl!JUTS!duts!kls30 From: kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: AMIGA Message-ID: <5fDh02JY072Q01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 6 May 91 15:40:48 GMT References: <1991Jan10.194127.20625@rice.edu> <17564@cbmvax.commodore.com> <1991Jan15.015644.24380@rice.edu> <1991Jan15.024807.25384@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <=-bG-!+=1@cs.psu.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) Distribution: usa Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 118 In article <=-bG-!+=1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <1991Jan15.024807.25384@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@pogo.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > > > If would be useful if the NeXT actually used it effectively, and shared it. > Wouldn't it be nice if NeXT software could be compiled to multiprocess with > the DSP and the 68040? Wouldn't it be nice if someone implemented a software > version of the Discrete Cosine Transform so all NeXT users could have > JPEG compression instead of just NeXTDimension? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JPEG compression is built into the software starting with 2.0. The DSP is not shared because of data integrity. That is the DSP is for real time processing and data aquisition. The DSP runs its own code seperate from the CPU. That is it relies on the cpu and I/O processors for DMA to the harddrive. Since the DSP does not run an OS it is difficult to do a task switch. If you want to write code for a task switch, be my guest, I won't be using it because I need real time response for digital recording. Also the DSP is a processor but not a general purpose processor. It has no MMU capability. The DSP is a processor with its own local memory and when it runs a process it runs it out of local memory not shared memory. > >What do you mean by multiprocess the DSP and 68040? They both run at >the same time(this can't be what you meant). > > MIPS and MFLOPS are pretty much meaningless as benchmarks. I've heard > motorola quotes of 25mips and 3 mflops on a 68040, this was 1 year ago. > It has yet to be seen. > >Moto. claimed 20 mips and 3.5Mflops. NeXT tells you what you get: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peak performance, not sustained. You have to have true 0 wait state memory, keep the CPU busy for every clock cycle, have very few task task switches or page faults and pray. >15mips and 2.5Mflops ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is realistic and accurate. BTW - MIPS is very deceptive. Also for those of you talking about not being able to upgrade a NeXTslab; how many workstations are upgradeable? Not SUN, ask people who bought SUN 4's, SPARC 1s, 1+s they can't upgrade to a SPARC 2.Also you have NO idea if NeXT will or will not upgrade the slabs if a new slab comes out. They may or may not. If they don't then they must keep making '040 boards for a while for replacement. If they do then they can dedicate new production to the latest machine. This is what they did with the cube. They use trade-in boards to fix broken '030 cubes. For those of you talking about executable bloat. Look at a workstation like a SUN running X. The executables are large. If you have less than 12-16meg of memory don't try to run much because it will crawl. GUI code on UNIX takes memory both real to run and secondary (disk) to store. BTW - I have a PC and WP takes up a couple of megabytes on my PC harddrive so it's not a 'NeXT thing' for applications to take up diskspace. Try running most new Mac and PC applications from floppy. You can't because they fit on multiple floppies. > > Maybe I should reciprocate? > The NeXT makes a great...umm..uh..I dunno, it really has no market, I guess > its a great Unix Workstation, but I'll hold off on that until I see > the next generation of Sparc Machines. > >Hang on. Let's what till...doesn't cut it. The new Sparc II's are >out. Waiting for the NeXT generation doesn't cut it. We'll compare >EVERYONES next generation with everyone elses when the time comes. The NeXT can hold its own against SPARC 1+ and 2s. It places somewhere between the two depending on what benchmark you run. > When 68040 boards are released for the Amiga soon, what will be your ~~~~~~~~~~~ The operative word here is WHEN. > arguement then? The DSP? What if the 68040 board contains a 96001/2 DSP > (surpassing the NeXT) Then what? IF, IF, and more IF. > >Soon. I've got Amigoids telling me the 040 is here. I bet Amiga OS >2.0 is almost here for the entire Amiga line too. And to answer your >last question, what if the Sun explodes and we all die tomorrow? > > I think comparing machines with faster cpu clocks/newer processors is > dumb. Just as soon as 040s ship, 040 cards will be out for the Amiga, so ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ '040s are shipping. I upgraded my cube. BTW - For those of you who think that an '040 upgrade to the Amiga will be $800. Don't count on it. Motorola wants $700 a piece for the chip Qty 1000, paid in advance. You add marketing, development, and manufact. cost and my guess is you will be well above $1400. The cheapest Mac '040 board is above $2000. > for now, how about comparing the NeXT/030 to the Amiga3000? Or how > about ending this thread. If you don't want to buy an Amiga, you can > always by a NeXT. Hanging around in Amiga constantly bombarding > Amiga users with comparisions presents a negative image to potential > buyers Try bugging the IBM groups, or the Sun/Sparc groups and see what > they think of Sun Sparc vs NeXT. > >Because NeXT doesn't sell an 030 machine!!!! Therefore, you're going >to have to wait longer for it than the 040 machine. You could always go back in time. > >-Mike KeNT -- /* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */ /* For I can only express my own opinions. */ /* */ /* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */