Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!udel!rochester!rutgers!cbmvax!daveh From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXT software size Message-ID: <21316@cbmvax.commodore.com> Date: 6 May 91 23:09:31 GMT References: <4d7Gypu=1@cs.psu.edu> Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA Lines: 65 In article undrground!accangel@amix.commodore.com (Mark Gardner) writes: >melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> Actually, I think the symbol table is included in there too. >> Objective C includes it so that it can do dynamic binding. The >> software would even be larger by dynamic libraries are used. Yes, I >Point of fact: the Amiga's libraries are either in the KickStart ROM or >on disk as separate files. Only one copy need exist on disk/in memory. As I recall, the NeXT is doing something different here. Or actually, Objective-C. Most non-OOPLs resolve every symbol at compile/link time. C++ does its symbol resolution then too; though it of course can't fully resolve virtual objects, it can resolve their symbols. Most OOPLs, though, work better as interpreted language systems, because they thrive on dynamically modified objects. If you can resolve objects symbols at runtime, you can add new objects to an already established program. Objective-C apparently does some runtime symbol resolution on program startup, which may account for the amazing size of those executables. >> The NeXT is a workstation. Most things are an order of magnitude >> larger. The RAM used and needed, the disk space, the speed(not and >> order of magnitude, but faster). As compared to what? The NeXT isn't architecturally that different than any high-end personal computer. It is noticably different than traditional workstations, like HP or Sun machines. It comes with a workstation sized display, which lets you do workstation things with it. But it doesn't have a faster hard disk controller than an A3000, or faster expansion bus (for cubes only) than an A3000 or a MCA/EISA based PC Clone. Perhaps they ship a faster hard disk with it, which is the current limitation of the A3000 -- the Quantums are good (apparently good enough for Sun; they ship them in all the SparcStations we have), but if you can afford on, a Wren VI or any number of HPs or Fujitsus will go faster. It is true that a NeXT '040 machine, as with most any '040 machine, can compare favorably to modern low-end Workstations like the SparcStation I. Thing is, not everyone wants a Workstation. They are good for certain problems, but this latest "pizza box" trend is generating only closed boxes. That's good if you need a specific amount of memory, display, etc. but not so good if you're trying to suit a variety of needs. I could theoretically replace my office A3000 here at work with a workstation; it has a 1000x800 monochrome display, 200MB of disk space, and ethernet. I would have to give up the 7 extra serial ports, but I could probably live with it. The BridgeCard could be replaced with a software emulator, since I'm not doing much with it. Of course, since the Ethernet isn't a built-in, it costs a bit more to hook this all up, I need an A2065 card. At home, forget it. I need my extra ports; I like two modems and a possibly a fax attached, plus printers and an occasional extra hardware doohicky. I may eventually need more memory than I can fit on the motherboard (obviously a VM system can trade off speed for memory). In the lab, forget it completely. Too much stuff to hook up, plus occasional special purpose boards, logic analyzer, scope, that kind of thing. Another kind of lab may need other data acquisition cards, video devices, music devices, etc. A workstation may have its place, but it is not a general purpose solution. >Mark Gardner -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.