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From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Revised Amiga line
Message-ID: <4822@orbit.cts.com>
Date: 6 May 91 19:45:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.4822
Sender: news@orbit.cts.com
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.
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daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>Well, keep in mind that what everyone thinks of as VLSI generally isn't.  
>Unless you're talking about some proposal to put all three Amiga chips on a
>single chip, there is no VLSI needed to build a more integrated A500 type
>machine.  In fact, there's very little on an A500 anyway, since most of the
>extra TTL parts of the A1000 were pulled into Gary, which is a small gate
>array.  Those new Macs don't use VLSI, either, they just use somewhat larger
>gate arrays, more along the lines of the A3000's.  And surface mount packages,
>which makes for a smaller motherboard.

Well, i was considering reducing the chip count.  such as integrating th
8520's and other support chips into a single chip.  heck, i know this is
stretching it, but Apple shrunk the entire motherboard of the Apple IIe onto
one chip (the Mega II chip) and the technology isn't much less than that of
the support circuitry on the 500.  imagine looking inside a 500r (redesigned)
and seing 5 chips, not includeing the cpu.

>
>As for expansion costs, it depends on what you are talking about.  Four A3000
>Zorro III slots probably add around $100 cost to the system, taking into
>account the cost of the Buster, bus buffers, backplane, connectors, PCB space
>on the motherboard, and extra power supply.  Certainly no more.  The cost of
>an A500 expansion edge is nearly indistinguishable from free, unless you 
>shrank the PCB down to the point where that edge would cost significant PCB
>space.  You don't pay for power supply size or buffering, because there isn't
>any extra.  A Zorro II backplane in an A3000-type configuration would be a bit
>cheaper than the Zorro III implementation, it takes the same extra power 
>supply and same backplane, but the cheap thin Buster and fewer buffers, as
>long as a 68000 is the heart of the system (the 68000 replaces a good portion
>of what Buster adds to convert 68030 signals into Zorro II signals).  You
>could put the buffers and bus controller on the expansion card, but it would
>eat the bottom Zorro slot, there's absolutely no room there on the A3000.

That was the point.  shrinking the PCB to a very small size.  as for the 3000
style backplane on a 2000, my point there was that if it could be designed to
place all the expansion circuitry possible on the backplane, and also make it
possible for the machine to function properly without the backplane then the
redesigned 2000 could be sold much cheaper.
>
>>I think Commodore has already developed its new lowend machine:  the
>>A3000-16.  The startup cost for any design is rather expensive, and 
>>starting up a line for a low end machine just really isn't worth it.
>
>That's true, though no A3000 is going to be considered "low end" as long as
>there are A500s around.  That's what you'd call an entry-level high end
>machine, or cheap-ass high end machine, depending on your terminology.  In
>general, you only start new computers every once and awhile, and then spin off 
>that developed technology at several levels.  A significant amount of redesign
>of the A1000 led to both the A500 and the A2000.  The A3000 was another new 
>one, and the first spinoff is the A3000T (who knows if there will be more).
>A2500, A3000UX, 16MHz vs. 25MHz are really just bundling options, not new
>machines, of course.
>
>>                                   Wayne Rigby
>
>-- 
>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      PLINK: hazy     BIX: hazy
>      "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.

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