Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!widener!msi.umn.edu!noc.MR.NET!gacvx2.gac.edu!vax1.mankato.msus.edu!vax1.mankato.msus.edu!msucats From: msucats@att1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU (msucats) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: HLLs vs. Assembly (was Re: IIgs Unzip thing) Message-ID: Date: 4 May 91 11:32:12 GMT References: <8993@crash.cts.com> Organization: Mankato State University Lines: 61 Nntp-Posting-Host: att1.mankato.msus.edu In-reply-to: psonnek@pro-mansion.cts.com's message of 3 May 91 15:56:14 GMTLines: 61 In article <8993@crash.cts.com> psonnek@pro-mansion.cts.com (Patrick Sonnek) writes: >> [ HLLs are faster because they do optimizations that assembly >> programmers wouldn't do due to boredom ] > Have you ever heard of macros? Most good assemblers, even Apples > Pro-Dos Assembler tools supports macros. Alot of assmblers for > mainframes come with a whole truck load of memory and register > management macros. (As well as I/O, program initialisation, system > inqiry.) Granted, the Apple does this entirely with Calls to the > MLI, but those are almost as easy to use as macros. About the Once you start using macros, you're back in HLL hell. Macros hide their internal details from the programmer; this is their advantage. However, this is also their disadvantage, since the programmer's ignorance means that macros may do useless things, such as... > Redundant load/stores, Bingo. > I've noticed many compilers do the exact opposite, the resulting > code is full of unnessesary loads/stores. Get A Real Compiler. (I suppose that's hard on the 6502. I wonder if gcc could be retargetted...naw.) Seriously, this means that you need a better optimizer for your compiler, or your compiler needs to be recoded from the bottom up. > in assembler you would code direct memory access, which is many > times faster, providing that what it is your accessing is within > your immediate memory page. Huh? Immediate memory page? Page Zero? > ProLine: psonnek@pro-mansion Sysop Pro-mansion: 507/726-6181 ^^^^^^^ The reason ProLine is a work of art is that it exists at all. Of course, such artistry is not necessary on 8086 machines of similar price...where HLL's can get the job done just as quickly. :-) > Internet: psonnek@pro-mansion.cts.com MCImail: psonnek > UUCP: crash!pro-mansion!psonnek ARPA: crash!pro-mansion!psonnek@nosc.mil > BITNET: psonnek%pro-mansion.cts.com@nosc.mil ^^^^^^^^ Doesn't look like a BITNET address to me. > <> Yes. We program in C. ;-) > <> Could you parenthesize that? Do you mean coders who write wimpy applications, application coders who are wimpy, or coders who are wimpy and write applications? Or are you trying to imply that people who write applications are wimpy coders? Jay Carlson msucats@att1.mankato.msus.edu