Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!wuarchive!uunet!stanford.edu!agate!ucbvax!GRIN1.BITNET!THROOP From: THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET ("Throop,Henry B") Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: Apple II hard drives stuff... Message-ID: <9105070152.AA15286@apple.com> Date: 7 May 91 01:43:24 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 123 > Seth has fun quoting everyone: > toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: > hzink@alchemy.UUCP (Harry K. Zink) writes: > > >I'm sorry, Todd, but even if we had 'real utilities' in ROM (whatever those > >might be), they still won't help me from retrieving my precious data from the > >hard drive (or floppy drive for that matter), if those functions fail. > > Well, a simple disk recoverer would be a good one to slap in ROM. I am not > claiming that you would be able to continue ALL of your work (come on!), but > it is better to be able to continue SOME of it with the aid of the computer > than NONE of it. > > > It has nothing to do with people getting 'smart' and such, but rather with > >looking at the computer as a tool in a *realistic* fashion. > > Looking at the computer as a realistic tool IS the 'getting smart' I am talking > about. The idea is to reduce dependency on disk drives, so the machine boots > right away and installs updates and extensions as the drives spin up (if they > are even there). > > If you are using a laptop exclusively as a terminal, with no charging power > available, there is no point having the hard drive spinning. They do have > low power modes, but you still have the current surge as the drive starts up, > and spins up when it is woken. >[some stuff] >> What I was getting at was the idea of putting small useful stuff in ROM, >> like vt100 emulators, usable text editors, decent calculator and graphing >> functions, like notepads, alarm clocks, printing capability, and so on. > Anyone out there remember a "revolutionary" (my word) device called > the Swyftcard? It was an expansion card that contained a basic > Appleworks type program in ROM - a word processor (with an amazing > search algorithm), a terminal emulator [note: I could be remembering > this stuff incorrectly - it's been a couple of years] > It was designed by one of the guys who worked on the Macintosh, but > left early on in the development for some reason... > [my memory is truly failing me at the moment, and I hesitate to say > something totally inaccurate] > The point being that this Swyftcard is exactly what Todd is talking > about. Well, maybe not exactly.... Jef Raskin was the designer of the Swyftcard, back in 1984 or so. When at Apple, he was also the original designer of the Mac. He had envisioned it as an elegant, easy to use, fast, powerful. When Jobs stopped yelling at Raskin for wasting his time on such an idiotic idea and took it over for himself (Jobs), Raskin says it lost all its original elagance - couldn't do _anything_ worthwile with the original 128K Mac, too many bells and whistles, and 'slow as molasses' (Jef's description). He got disgusted with the whole thing and threatened to leave Apple, Apple said to 'wait a wekk and we'll make you an offer you can't refuse,' he waited, they made an offer, and he refused. He left and formed Information Appliance, which made the Swyftcard and later Swyftdisk (just a disk) which were basically what Raskin had envisioned in the first place. The basic idea here was elegance - turn on your computer, start typing without waiting for anything, stick in a disk (doesn't matter if it's formatted or not), and hit a key to save everything. Hey, the whole system only had something like 5 commands (load, save, print...). The user should not have to know anything about it; the computer should be treated just as any other appliance in your basic household. I don't know how much I agree with this philosophy. Although of course there is a place for such simplicity, I think this may be just going a bit _too_ far, and really limiting for a lot of people. I don't think Raskin envisioned the system as being suitable for everybody - there's still a place for people who use computers and don't have a problem with them as they are currently, but the Swyftcard was for 'normal' people who didn't want to know anything about how it all worked. To a large extent, the Mac has filled this spot, with the interface making it more accessible than the older-style MS-DOS or II command line. However, there is still a world of difference between the complexity of the Mac's interface and that of the Swyftcard. Also, the Mac has lost much of its elegance and simplicity by now, compared with both the original 128K Mac and with the current offerings of Amiga/ST/PC windowing-based systems. > I don't think it caught on too well. > Hmmm. That sounds like an argument against it. But he did get Woz to pose for the ads and say something like 'If I had thought of the Swyftcard in 1977, I would have built it in.' :-) >> >Remember, computers are not designed for hackers (as you probably are) who >> can >> >make dow ith minimum equipment. 98% of the people out there are computer >> >morons, and/or they use the machine as a tool, not as a passion. When parts >> >break that are essential, the tool stops being useful and becomes wasteful. >> >> Dammit, my whole point is that computers should be designed so normal people >> can also make due with minimal equipment!! The whole system (not just the >> hardware and software, but the way they affect how people use computers) >> would have to be a lot more robust than it is now, and I don't think the >> industry has addressed this adequately yet. >Todd's made a good point, and I happen to agree with him. I don't know. Ideas are nice, but I don't really see how something like this could fly. The percentage of the computer-using population is steadily growing, and I think most of them can pretty much understand what's going on. Incidently, there is a fantastically hilarious interview with Jef Raskin in _Programmers at Work_, Microsoft/Tempus Press. This book also has interviews with a bunch of other important people (Gary Kildall, Dan Bricklin + the other VisiCalc guy, Andy Hertzfield, Jaron Lanier, etc, though no Woz or even Jobs...) >-seth tHe mAd ScienTisT, and other carnations >sk2f@andrew.cmu.edu | everything seems so easy this way but I'm going under Henry -- Henry Throop THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET throoph@jacobs.cs.orst.edu