Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Do Jews need Jesus? Message-ID: Date: 5 May 91 01:35:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 58 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) writes: > In article benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: > > We have Nicodemus as an example. Here was a man who surly followed the Law > > as close as any man could. He was able to recognize that Jesus was a man > > sent from G-d, and came to talk to him one night. When Jesus and Nicodemus > > began to engage in conversation, Jesus didn't say "keep up the good deeds > > and you're a shoe in." But he did say to a man who was in tune with the > > the Spirit, that he needed a total rebirth of his soul and spirit. And > > Nicodemus obeyed. > > Did Jesus say to Nicodemus "And if you're ever gonna get into heaven > you'll have to start worshipping *me*"? He did talk about being born > again, but I don't remember anything about becoming a disciple or > anything like that. Consider just a few verses later. Jesus is still talking to Nicodemus in verses 18 and 19 of John chapter 3: "He that believeth on him [Jesus] is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemmed already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil." Abraham was saved by faith because he lived up to the information he was given. After the arrival of Jesus, the information given Jews and Gentiles changed dramatically. If you're presented with the claims of Christ and you reject him, then, well, you've rejected him. And if he is God (which is the position of the new testament, after all), then you've rejected God. What basis do we have from the Law & The Prophets which would lead us to believe that a decendent of Abraham will be always be saved, even if that person explicitly rejects the God of Abraham? The claim of the new testament is that Jesus is indeed the Messiah of Israel. That means he's the one annointed to be the King of Israel. If a Jewish person rejects their King, how can they be a part of the kingdom which that King is running? More to the point, perhaps, would be the following question. If Jewish people do not need Jesus to be saved, why on earth did he spend so much time talking to the Jews? It's very rare that we find him talking to anyone who wasn't Jewish. Why would he bother with the Jews if they don't need him in the first place? Why did the apostles start by bringing Jews to Christ? Stephen witnessed to the High Priest and the elders, saying they needed to consider the claims of Jesus. You aren't going to get a much more Jewish audience than that. Try to find one verse in the new testament where there was any controversy over witnessing to someone because that person was Jewish. Now see if you can find any passages where there was a controversy over accepting Gentiles into the church. The biggest question in the beginning of Acts was not "Is Jesus for the Jews?", it was "Is Jesus for the Gentiles in addition to the Jews?". - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu (handles NeXT-type mail)