Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: Frank.Farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: DOES GOD HAVE A PENIS (SERIOUS - HONEST) Message-ID: Date: 5 May 91 03:42:50 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 128 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , ATINTON@esoc.bitnet writes: >[Since the authors of the OT thought God was immortal and invisible, >it's clear that they couldn't have meant the term "image" to refer to >the physical body. One can get an idea of at least some of what the >author had in mind from other things in the creation account. E.g. >in the same verse mankind is given dominion over the earth. In Gen 2 >(which probably has somewhat different sources, but still shows Hebrew >thought about creation) we see God breathing his spirit into the man. >Note the difference: the body is *made*, from the dust. The spirit is >breathed from God. From these two passages one might conclude that >the image involves at least that God and humankind are both >responsible moral agents, and that our spiritual side is related to >God. I'm sure others will have other suggestions. --clh] I would like to respond to remarks made by the Moderator, whether God has a body or not. First of all, the OT doesn't teach that God doesn't have a body. It may teach that he is invisible, because most man couldn't see him. Here is what Paul has to say about God being invisible, as he refers to Moses: Hebrews 11:27 ============= "By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. I believe that when we read Genesis we in fact get the picture that we were in fact created in God's physical image: Genesis 5:3 =========== "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and beget a son in his own *likeness*, after his own *image*:..." (The emphesis is mine) The usage of the words "image" and "likeness" here is identical to the usage in Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1. First of all, the argument that man was created in the moral image of God is false, before the fall and after the fall. 1. Before the fall man new no good and no evil. Without such knowledge, man couldn't possibly exercise any moral decision whatsoever. However, it is exactly the time when God says that *they* did create them in *their* image. Genesis 1:26 ============ "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:." The fact that they did eat from the tree of good and evil is not the same kind of sin which we do when we do understand, and yet still do evil. 2. After the fall they did knew good and evil, however, since not one person, with the exception of Jesus, was ever sinless, we can't say that we have been created in the moral image of God. I am not sure why there is such a tremendous problem with God the Father having a body. I believe that the gnostics did at least win a partial victory. They have influenced the doctrine of the church in such way as to make God the Father a person who has no parts, passions, and he doesn't occupy space at any time. He is every where and no where at the same time. He essentially became a none entity. No parts, no feelings, exists everywhere and no where. This is one of the better description of nothing I have ever heard. Such concept of God is not biblical in my opinion. He does love, He is long suffering, He gets angry, etc. All of this things are what is called passion. The scriptures mention those who saw Him face to face. They talked with Him as one man talks with another. Moses and the Seventy elders saw his feet in the Tabernecle. However, the strongest proof I have for the idea that God the Father has a body is the fact that Jesus, his Son, has a body. Now, let me ask, why is it that Jesus was resurrected with his physical body? Isn't Jesus God? What does he do with his physical body? Why not just return to the "superior state" which his Father is in? Does Jesus has all his body parts? And let me ask the question, why are we going to be resurrected in our physical bodies? The answer to this questions are simple, if we accept the fact that God the Father also has a body. If this is true, than the fact that we were created in *their* image makes a whole lot of sense to me. Also, it is obvious to me that our physical bodies are necessary, and all of the parts have functions. If this wouldn't be the case, neither Jesus, nor any one of us would be resurrected. What purpose would there be for the resurrection of the body, if there wouldn't be any purpose in it at all? The bottom line is, that I know that Jesus was resurrected in his physical body. I also know that he is in fact God. The scriptures bear witness to this fact: Hebrews 1:8-9 =========== "But unto the Son he saith, Thy trone, O'God, is for ever and ever:.." "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness abovethy fellows." The scriptures does in fact teach not only that Jesus is God, but the fact that he has a God too. John writting in Revelations says the following: Rev 1:6 ======= "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." It appears that John says that God has a father too. It is clear that many passages in the Bible can be inerpreted different ways. This is the reason that further revelation on this subject was necessary. Such revelation has been received through the prophet Joseph Smith. D&C 130:22 ========== "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." I found that truth is always simple. Truth is light, and it is discernible. It does enlighten our understanding. I hope that I did provide an answer to the person who initiated this tread. With brotherly love, Frank