Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!princeton!njin!paul.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Not Straight to Heaven - Re: Believers Life after Death Message-ID: Date: 7 May 91 04:32:11 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 44 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu For those who have not been following this: * I posted a series "DEATH & HELL". * John Emery posted his differing views "Believers Life after Death" * Later I posted a point by point reply to John's post. * John has re-stated his views from new perspectives in reponse. There comes a time when we need to allow that each has presented his views with sane mind and intelligence and then to respect those views of the other. As agreeable friends we must dissagree. My recent study has lead me to believe that the real substance of our differering views has to do with our difinitions - "ruach," "pneuma," "nephesh," "psuche". My study has shown that the popular definitions of soul and spirit come from Plato and those who quote heavily from Plato. Plato's views, as he states, on the immortal soul come from "deduction" with no clue at all that he derived any of his views from God inspired sources. And yet the early fathers, such as Autustine, quote elaborately from Plato. I could quote extensively from Catholic and other Bible encyclopedias and commentaries that show their understanding that the Biblical soul and spirit differ remarably from the Platonic soul and spirit. The Biblical forms are seen as part of a wholeness and clearly not separable entities, except that a non concious 'breath of life' returns to God, in the sense that without God's breath of life we cannot live. There are a growing number of authors of many denominations who are discovering the true Biblical defintions, as they dig into the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible. If I accept Plato's definitions of 'soul' and 'spirit' then I have no choice but to agree that John Emery is right in his views. John and I will have to agreeably dissagree on the Biblical definitions of 'nephesh', 'ruache', 'hades', etc. John and I do agree in our blessed hope to be with our Lord Jesus Christ. John sees this happening at the instant of death. I see this happening after an instant of timeless unconciousness. We both would prefer to meet Jesus return without having seen death. Dave (David E. Buxton)