Xref: utzoo comp.sys.amiga.marketplace:1168 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:9002 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!dali.cs.montana.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1 From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.marketplace,comp.sys.amiga.hardware Subject: Re: A3000 upgrade offer.. Message-ID: <1991May9.072353.26017@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Date: 9 May 91 07:23:53 GMT References: Sender: usenet@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (The Network News) Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) Organization: Columbia University Lines: 93 Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu In article ps3g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick Jason Soo Hoo) writes: >> He said that only 10% of his software works. It sounds >> to ME like he has mainly 2+ year old games. Success rates with >> today's games are over 50% from what I've seen and with >> commercial applications it is all but 100% >> So either he was lying about his 10% figure, or he has >> very old and outdated programs. In the latter case he has no >> right to complain. Certainly no right to be upset at Commodore or >> to want to sue. > > You mean to say that we should perform a complete rotation of our >software libraries every TWO YEARS?? That we should invest how many hundreds >to thousands of dollars in a two-year sinkhole?? And that it shouldn't be a >cause for complain?? That's absurd, at best. > I didn't say that everyone should spend the money to keep their applications software up-to-date (usually about $20-$40 per year per software product). I simply said that if you don't invest in those updates you don't really have the right to complain when it breaks. Most of the failures are the fault of the programmers of the application. BLAME THEM. Not Commodore. CBM can't just sit back and let the world go by without improving their software simply because their are bad programmers. I know of NO programs which can't be updated to work on an A3000. And most never needed an upgrade. >> If you need more expansion than the A3000 can provide, >> which I can only foresee happening if you need a bridgeboard > > Can the 3000 take a Toaster? > With some modifications, yes. But I don't recommend it, get an A2500. What's your point? The Toaster problem has nothing to do with expandability, but incompatibility. Which again, BTW, was NewTek's fault. Not that they necessarily did something wrong. They made a calculated decision which they new might have negative repercussions. They made the card taller than CBM's specs and for some wierd reason it won't work with the new Denise, and I am AFRAID to find out what stuff they were doing to cause THAT problem. >> What Kiernan did was just plain dumb and he won't get any clear >> support from anyone. Certainly not when you consider the >> ridiculous language he used. > > I certainly support his right to be angry. What I find a little unsettling >is the zealousness with which many amiga users will defend Commodore's >name to the death! (myself included, much of the time :) ) But to attack >another amiga user's intelligence and integrity just because he COMPLAINED >about the product is RIDICULOUS!!! Customer feedback should be one of, if >not THE most important input lines to ANY manufacturer, especially ones in >positions like Commodore (need to expand)! > > I'm sure Kiernan appreciates the post-facto advice, but instead of >defecating on him, maybe you can give him advice on how to deal with his >non-old-program-running A3000? > >pat If he had posted something like "I'm having problems with my A3000. I can't get it to work with many of my programs ... Commodore: I feel ripped off," I would've sympathized and tried to give advice. He however trashed the machine totally, trashed the OS totally, gave no sign that he felt there was any redeeming value to the system, and said that he'd sue CBM if he could, not giving any reason why he should be able to sue CBM. When people talk like that they don't expect an answer and have no interest in discussing things. He was angry and wanted to vent his anger on Commodore. Reread his post and tell me if you still think he deserves a dignified response. And I certainly defend a person's right to complain about a product. Practically everything works if you use 1.3 except games which have problems with the 68030. Those programs would all fail on a 2500 too, unless you booted down into a 68000. It isn't Commodore's fault that the applications don't follow the rules. The only other alternative is for Commodore to shut down all R&D and give up. Sure he should be angry, but not at Commodore, at the software developer that screwed him. And I do question his judgement and rationality. That post was definitely not from a rational perspective. If he listened to what other Amiga users had to say about the A3000, he'd realize that almost no one else has had as many problems as he does. My A3000 has no problems running practically anything under 2.0. And Xoper was always buggy. 8-) -- Ethan "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?"