Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sexism in the church Message-ID: Date: 11 May 91 03:14:05 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 100 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article math1h3@jetson.uh.edu writes: >In article , cctr114@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes: >I can understand how you might believe that, but I believe that the Bible >is verbally inspired by God. That means it says what God wants it to say, >albeit in the words of a number of different human authors. So Paul's >words, for me, are God's Words. Otherwise we have to start picking and >choosing what is God's Word, and while some think they can do that, I >don't. Sometimes Paul makes it quite clear that he is speaking for himself and not for God. Sometimes he makes it quite clear that he is speaking for God. I Corinthians 7:10-12 10 For married people I have a command which is not my own but the Lord's: a wife must not leave her husband; 11 but if she does, she must remain single or else be reconciled to her husband; and a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the others I say (I, myself, not the Lord): if a Christian man has a wife who is an unbeliever and she agrees to go on living with him, he must not divorce her. 13... (TEV) Now, in those places where he does not explicitly state for whom he is speaking (himself, or God) who are we to assume he is speaking for. Since he explicitly states that the command given in verses 10 and 11 is from the Lord, I would tend to think that the preceding verses were his own opinion. (And if you read them over, I think you will agree. For instance, check out verses 6 and 7). I Corinthians 7:6-7 6 I tell you this not as an order, but simply as a permission. 7 Actually I would prefer that all of you were as I am; but each one has a special gift from God, one person this gift, another one that gift. (TEV) Paul is doing his best to answer the Corinthians' questions. In some cases he answers from his own way of thinking, and in other cases, (such as verses 10 & 11) he gives the ruling from God (Jesus in this case). To say that all Paul's words are the words of God I feel is to contradict Paul's very words. >You might explain to us what Jesus taught about women that was incompatible >with Paul's teachings. I don't find Jesus setting up women as teachers of men >or choosing them as apostles. At the wedding at Cana he quite distinctly >put his mother in her place. Well, yes, and at other points he quite clearly puts his (male) disciples in their places. Are we to conclude that men aren't to lead either? >But if I treat the canonical scriptures as inspired, then I have to >accept Paul's interpretation of Genesis in 1 Timothy 2:11-15! And >for Christians the real question is not what can a woman do vs. what >can't she do. It is a question of how we interpret scripture. Do we >treat it as verbally inspired or just occasionally inspirational? In the 16th chapter of Romans, Paul sends personal greetings to a number of fellow workers in the church. The first he mentions is Phoebe Romans 16:1-2 I recommend to you our sister Phoebe, who serves the church at Cenchrae. 2 Receive her in the Lord's name as God's people should, and give her any help she may need from you; for she herself has been a good friend to many people and also to me. (TEV) The second he mentions is Priscilla. she and Aquila have a church meeting in their house. Unusually, he lists Priscilla first. I'd assume she was considered highly to be mentioned first. She apparantly has risked her life for Paul, but so has Aquila, so I don't think that's the reason she's mentioned first. Romans 16:3-7 I send greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in the service of Christ Jesus; 4 they risked their lives for me. I am grateful to them-not only I, but all the Gentile churches as well. 5 Greetings also to the church that meets in their house. Greetings to my dear friend Epaenetus, who was the first man in the province of Asia to believe in Christ. 6 Greetings to Mary, who has worked so hard for you. 7 Greetings also to Andronicus and Junias*, fellow Jews who were in prison with me; they are well known among the apostles, and they became Christians before I did. (TEV) * Junias; or June; some manuscripts have Julia. Now he mentions Mary. (Who has worked so hard for you.) Then he mentions Junias who was thrown into prison! She must have been doing something to get thrown into prison! (I'd bet preaching the good news, that's how a lot of the Christians got thrown into prison.) Okay, I admit it. Paul does not *explicitly* state that any one of these women was preaching. However, he also does not *explicitly* state that any of the men were either. It's certain he thought quite highly of these women. And I'd conclude they were leaders in the church. And I'm willing to bet that their leadership included teaching men. Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton