Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Do Jews need Jesus? Message-ID: Date: 11 May 91 03:38:03 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 48 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) writes: > In article gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes: > >...What basis do we > >have from the Law & The Prophets which would lead us to believe that a > >decendent of Abraham will be always be saved, even if that person > >explicitly rejects the God of Abraham? > > Ezekiel 18:5-9 > > 5 "Suppose there is a truly good man, righteous and honest. 6 He > doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices > offered at forbidden shrines. 6 He doesn't seduce another man's wife or > have intercourse with a woman during her period. 7 He doesn't cheat or > rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security; he feeds > the hungry and gives clothing to the naked. 8 He doesn't lend money for > profit. He refuses to do evil and gives an honest decision in any > dispute. 9 Such a man obeys my commands and carefully keeps my laws. > He is righteous, and he will live," says the Sovereign Lord. (TEV) > > I find it interesting that The Lord never mentions how the righteous man > treats him. The first thing is that he isn't worshipping any Idols, or > mucking about with the food that was offered to idols. From that point > on, the requirements are based on the man's treatment of others. I find it interesting that that passage is not talking about Jews who have explicitly rejected God. I asked if there was any evidence that a Jew could explicitly reject God and expect to remain saved. No where in that passage (or later in the chapter) does it say that a Jewish person can explicitly reject God and expect God to save the person doing the rejecting. The passage you quote is describing a person who is accepting and following all the information available to that person. The Lord says that person is just and shall surely live. That gives us no information on someone who rejects the message or the person of God. More importantly (IMHO), the chapter you're reading from is not trying to tell anyone how to be saved. It's trying to expose the absurdity of the idea that God would punish a good person because of the evil of their parents (see the first few verses of the chapter). The fact that it omits some details of the law does not prove that those details can be ignored or rejected. The chapter does not say anything about coveting, for instance, and yet "Thou shalt not covet..." is one of the ten commandments. Would you therefore claim that Jewish people can ignore that commandment, simply because this passage does not talk about it? - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu