Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ROBERT@kontu.cc.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The demons Message-ID: Date: 13 May 91 05:21:45 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 108 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu < In If you look at Revelation chapter 4, the first ever view of heaven, you will >not find a single Christian. it is only after the first rapture, when the >overcoming Christians living at the end of this age are called up yonder to >cast satan out of heaven (yes, Satan is there--see Job and remember that >he sits in front of God accusing us day and night), that Revelation records < I was always under the impression that Satan was already thrown < out of Heaven, during the life of Jesus, from Revelations 12:7-9: John, who wrote Rev. in approximately 90AD, wrote from chapter 4 of things that are to COME (Rev. 4:1). This means that the rest of the Book of Revalation is about the then future. To understand Rev. chapter 12 let us first look at Rev. 12:1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. Spiritually speaking, the woman in the Bible usually refers to the church (see Rev. chapters 21 and 22). The Church is full of Christ, thus to be "clothed with the sun" refers to this fact, that the Church is of and for Christ and that is represented here by the sun (from whence we get light, like as in Christ is the light). The moon is a body that has no light of its own, but reflects the sun's light. The moon here is thus the Church. The "crown of twelve stars" represents the twelve tribes of Isreal. This refers to the OT saints that were faithful to God, such as Abraham, Samuel, David, Daniel, etc. Thus this woman is the universal Church, that includes the OT saints and all the Christians who make up the Church since the Lord first breathed His life into His believers (John 20:22). This woman appears before Satan is cast out, thus Satan was not cast out during the life of Jesus. In fact, Satan is still not cast out. The woman must first bring forth a man child, which is composed of the overcoming believers (see Rev. chapters 2 and 3, which give details of Church history from the fist century to the end of this age (the age of the Gentiles)). This man child will be caught up, which means raptured, to cast Satan out of heaven. Now I know of no rapture that has yet occured, so this rapture will be in the future. It will occur just before the start of the tribulation (God, in His mercy, will not leave the stronger part of His Church here to enndure the tribulation, but He will take only those that are overcomers, full grown in Christ). The tribulation, spoken of both here in Revelation and Daniel, will last 7 years. It will be composed of two parts: the tribulation (lasting 3 1/2 years of natural calamities) and the great tribulation (lasting 3 1/2 years of supernatural calamities). Revelation covers this in great detail, and Daniel speaks of it. The tribulation in Revelation is likened to a harvest. Those Christians that are ready will be taken first (part of the man child). Those many Christians that are not ready will be taken as they are ready (full grown iin Christ). This means that there will be multiple raptures. As Christians mature in Christ under the hot burning sun of the tribulation they will be taken. At the start of the great tribulation the last Antichrist will become full evident. He will persecute and KILL many Christians (see Rev. 2.22-23, which verses specifically speak of the great tribulation). The Antichrist will rule Europe. Rev. 2:18-29 speak of the Church in Thyatira, which is really a brief history of the Catholic Church. The Antichrist will mainly kill those belonging to the Catholic Church, which is predominant in that part of Europe that he will rule. Later in Revelation it speaks of Babylon the Great being overthrown, this is the Catholic Church. Satan and his angels will be thrown out of heaven at the start of the great tribulation. Woe to the earth for 3 1/2 years. It is crazy for Christians to think that they go to heaven when they die. There is war in heaven right now, between God's angels and Satan's angels. Christians go to Paradise when they die, to Abbraham's bussom, just as the Lord did when He died. This war will not be resolved in heaven until the overcomers are raptured to throw him out (this is God's way and God's glory, God is using the Church to defeat Satan and eventually the Church will become the bride of Christ (the woman (Rev. 12:1 and Rev. chapters 21 and 22)). If this all does not make sense to you then you must read authorities on the Book of Revelation. With the right teachings it is all very clear. < And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against < the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not < strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon < was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan, who < leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his < angels with him. (NIV) < This would also explain the references throughout Revelations of Satan < ----- Robert W. Johnson Computer center, The University of Turku, Turku Finland robert@kontu.utu.fi (InterNet) robert@firien.bitnet (BITNET) The preceeding is my opinion and may not express the opinion of my employer and furthermore has nothing to do with my employment.